Maria Talks About Leaning Into Community

[00:00:00]

Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app.

Today, I chat with Maria, who is a fellow reframer and a university professor in kinesiology who has worked with people with degenerative diseases for 15 years. Maria says she has had a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol for a great deal of that time. And in January of [00:01:00] 2022, they broke up when she joined reframe.

Then they got back together about nine months later when she dabbled, uh, sometimes heavily on and off until May 30th of 2023. This time around is different because she says she has leaned into the ReFrame community, made some amazing friendships, and worked with amazing coaches there.

She used alcohol as an escape from things like grief and burnout, and it took re evaluating what she was doing in her professional life to address burnout and turn towards more healthier coping mechanisms to deal with that grief. She has always been an athletic person and identifies as a runner, but really any sort of long distance adventure in nature is where she thrives and feels most at peace.

She's biked across the country, run multiple ultra marathons, and started out rigger paddling this year. She has found community in reframe and also in the sports that she has grown to love. So, without further delay, let's go talk to Maria.

Hey Maria, how's it going?

Maria: I'm good. How are you [00:02:00] doing today, Kevin?

Kevin: Good. Busy, but good. Busy's not a bad thing, but uh, yeah. How's your October starting off?

Maria: You know, it's starting off pretty well.

Um, so it's, today's the third. Um, my brother got married on the first, uh, so I was at his wedding. He's been with his partner for I think it's been eight years now, but, um, they have two, two little boys, a four and a six year old. So that was. I mean, the wedding was, was beautiful and it was wonderful, but hanging out with the boys was so much fun and, doing it sober and having the, the memories of, well, actually remembering the, the whole wedding, the memories.

Yeah, exactly. Having memories. Um, yeah, it was, it was a good time, so it was a, a good way to kick off October and then, um, today [00:03:00] in, in Jay's. Meeting check in meeting, they were talking about, you know, like, what's your plan for first over October? And I was like, oh, yeah, sober October. Um, I don't really have a plan yet, but it's going to be sober.

I know that.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. Don't drink, uh, is step one, right? Um, but, but yeah, we can, and we could talk about that more, uh, as far as. That's step one, but yeah, there's a lot more that goes into it as far as being successful. Um, and so I'll be curious to hear what tools you have used along the way. Um, so yeah, that's, uh, I'm sure, I'm sure we'll, I'm sure we'll circle back to this wedding too, uh, at some point towards the end here.

If I forget, you should, yeah, fill me in on, uh, tips for that too. But, uh, but if you want to kick it off and just share a little bit about Your story, uh, I'll say, you know, whatever, [00:04:00] whatever that means to you, whatever that feels like, or where you feel is a good place to start. Um, we can go from there.

Yeah.

Maria: Um, so I, you know, I wanted to do this, um, because. I, this is not, not my first attempt at being sober. Um, I, so in January of 2022, I joined Reframe. I had been seeing it on, pretty sure it was Instagram, it kept popping up and,

Kevin: um,

Maria: yeah. And I, I was. Like, you know, this, this is interesting. I checked it out a couple times, but never pulled the trigger on it.

And then, um, and you know, I was just like at the, the height of, I was just in a really dark place, um, really struggling with depression. Um, just not, not [00:05:00] wanting to, not wanting to be dead, but not wanting to be alive. You know, just kind of in that, like, and that's, it's tough. sucky, sucky place to be in. And so, um, I joined Reframe.

I stopped drinking for a while. And uh, you know, I, I was sure that that would, like, I just needed to stop drinking and all my problems were going to be solved. Right? Like, um, and so I stopped drinking and it, it honestly wasn't. challenging to stop drinking. Um, because I just, I knew it wasn't serving me. Um, it wasn't making anything better.

That's for sure. It had become a way to escape a coping mechanism. Um, and I quit for a while and, and. I think it was easy because, well, I had the distraction of my own wedding, it was coming up. Um, [00:06:00] my wife and I, well, we, we officially got married in during COVID and then we had our wedding celebration in the summer of 2022.

And so like leading up to that, I had a pretty solid distraction of, you know, doing all the things that you need to do to get ready for a wedding. Yeah. And I was sober for my wedding, which I am so incredibly grateful for. Um, honestly, I don't. With how much was happening and how tired I was the whole time.

I don't, I don't think I could have been drinking and still function. So, um, Yeah, I'm grateful that I have all of those memories as well. But then, and you know, I was, I was using the Reframe app the whole time, doing the daily, the daily tasks. Um, checking off my drinks. Um, I loved the, the, this is gonna sound silly, but you know like the, the flame at the top of [00:07:00] the, the page?

Kevin: Yeah, the day and then you get the, the fire that,

Maria: yeah. Yeah, the little flame starts to starts to dance. I don't know why, but I loved, I loved that thing.

Kevin: A little dopamine hit maybe or something. Yeah.

Maria: Exactly. Yeah. I was like, I love that little dancing flame. Um, so anyway, you know, I was, I was doing all of the, the things, um, I started seeing my therapist regularly.

Um, I, you know, I'd been talking to my doctor and got on some medications for depression and. And like I was doing all of the things like checking all the boxes of like the things that I was like these are the things that I have to do in order to fix my depression and But it wasn't like changing anything in my life You know, like the, the things that were actually contributing to why I was struggling, um, and a lot of it had to [00:08:00] do with things that I was doing with work and, um, and things that I was avoiding, like grief.

Um, and I'll, I'll touch on that in a minute too, but, um, so I was sober for almost nine months and then I just kind of got to a, well, speaking of grief. Two people passed away that were close to me in a, in a short timeframe. And I just said, fuck it. And I was like, I've been doing all of these things. I've been checking all the boxes and like my, like, I don't have a bad life.

Right. But the things that I was struggling with were still there. And, and so, you know, I kind of went back and forth with drinking and not drinking and drinking and not drinking. And, um, you know, it really was. Taking a toll on me, but also taking a toll on my marriage. Um, my wife is like, she's a fucking gem.

She, um, [00:09:00] she stuck by me through lots of, lots of ups and downs. And, um, but she did say at one point. She said, I'm gonna ride this roller coaster with you as long as we need to, but I would like to get off at some point. And, um, you know, that was, that was really, uh, like, she's, she's here, but this isn't good for either of us.

Um, and so May, May 30th, um, I got back on reframe, um,

Kevin: that's of, that's of this year, right? Of

Maria: this year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 2023. Um, got back on reframe, started doing the daily tasks again. And the, the thing that's different this time though, is, um, like I never, I never joined the zoom meetings. I never really tapped into the community.

Um, I, I don't think I'm [00:10:00] unique in saying this, but I wanted to be able to do it on my own. And I was like, I'm, I'm doing the, you know, doing the daily tasks. I was doing my gratitude journals. But I was, you know, I was alone in it. Um, and I, I really got to the point where it was very clear that I needed, I needed help outside of myself.

And, that's where I'm, it feels a lot different this time in terms of the, the commitment to wanting to be sober and, and knowing that I'm, I'm not doing it alone. And I think there are a lot of people out there that, you know, they're, Like I have friends that don't really drink that much, but like, they're not on the sober journey.

And I think those are two very different things. Yeah.

Kevin: My wife doesn't really drink, she's pretty much sober, but she's not sober. [00:11:00] Like she doesn't do it. Right. Yeah.

Maria: Yeah. And that's exactly how, how my wife is. Um. You know, she can take it or leave it and, and she, and this is also a testament to like, just how wonderful she is this time around.

Um, I think she realized that if I'm going to commit to like a sober lifestyle, um, And it's not just for me, but for, for us and like for our marriage to really be strong. She said to me at one point, she was like, I'm, you know, I'm in this with you. She was like, I, I love you so much more than any drink of alcohol.

And I don't need that or want that. And, and I feel the same. Um, and I, I'm really grateful that I have that support because I know, I know there are a lot of people that don't. Um, and, and I know that it would be really challenging if, [00:12:00]if she drank on a regular basis or if there was alcohol in the house on a regular basis and...

And I was expected to not have any desires to indulge in that. Um, so I definitely, I'm, I have a lot of gratitude towards her for sticking by me when I was not being kind to myself and taking myself down a really destructive road. And also be sticking by me. And supporting me through this sober journey and I just, I feel so much more confident this time around because of the Reframe community, because I've made friends.

And I have some practice, you know, um, there are a lot of people that say like, this is my second time, or this is my third time, or this is my fourth time. And I don't know what number this is. This is my second longest stretch of sobriety, I guess.

Kevin: Well, cause I was going to ask, cause [00:13:00] you said this isn't your first attempt.

I mean, and I think you mean, you meant. From like May until now, so do you mean like your first, would you say your first attempt was, attempt was back in, uh, January of 22 when you first joined Reframe or was there something else, you know, before that?

Maria: Yeah, I mean, I think that was like my longest stretch and that was my, that was like the first time I really admitted to myself that like this is a problem.

The way I'm using alcohol is not serving me and it is not okay and something needs to change. Um, but I've also known for a long time that I, uh, well I've used alcohol as a coping mechanism for quite some time now. Um, my, I, I, well and I'll kind of jump back to A little bit of the origin part where, um, my mom was diagnosed with lung cancer, terminal lung [00:14:00] cancer when I was in college.

Um, I think it was like 19 or 20 and, um, I was, uh, A bumpy road for a couple of years, um, and she eventually passed away, um, and during the time that she had cancer, like towards the end of it, she was sick and she needed a lot of care from myself, my sister, my dad, um, and You know, my sister was younger than me at the time, well she still is, um, but you know, I was in my early twenties.

I was like trying to do my own life and also trying to figure out like, how do I take care of my mom? And I think probably being like mad at the world that like I was young and I shouldn't be having to do this sort of thing. And also not knowing how to deal with emotions and being just, just naively believing that like somehow my mom was gonna.

pull through [00:15:00] and be fine. Um, and that was like during that time was when I started basically using like, like alcohol and exercise really as just like a way to escape to not feel feelings and work. I, you know, like threw myself into grad school. I was working, uh, basically anything that I could do to distract myself from,

the, you know, the inevitable. And then she did pass away, and I just continued numbing for the past ten years. And, um, you know, the thing that I learned was that those feelings always resurface at some point. You can only... You can only numb them for so long.

Kevin: And yeah, push those down and keep them there.

Yeah, they will come out somewhere. Right.

Maria: Yeah. Yeah. I told my [00:16:00] doctor and my therapist is like, the things that I've been doing aren't working anymore. , I'm feeling these feelings. And, um, you know, I think it was like, like last year sometime. So 2022 sometime, I actually asked my therapist, how do you grieve?

Because I never, I never did. I just kept, I just kept going. Like I, my mom passed away and I just, I threw myself into everything that I did a hundred percent, whether

Kevin: it was, you asked for this like years later, it sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. So a decade later,

Maria: yeah, my mom passed away in 2012 and 2022 was when I asked my therapist, how do you grieve?

Kevin: Do you remember the answer?

Maria: Well it was, everyone is very different. But the, the followup was like, how do you deal with feelings? And her advice was. You have to sit with [00:17:00] them. And I, you know, my response was, how? I understand, like, give me a task and I will figure out how to do it, but when it comes to the brain and how it works, it's, that is a conundrum to me.

Um, and she said, okay, when you start to feel those big feelings, I want you to sit somewhere, preferably quiet, and just let the, she talks a lot about, like, feelings like waves. A lot of like the Reframe app talks about like with urge surfing or surfing. Yeah and you just kind of have to, to feel it, let it wash over you, but don't let it consume you.

And, um, you know, give it a time limit.

Kevin: I would have thrown in there again, another, okay, but how, how do I, you know, cause, uh, that's tough. Um, give it a time limit.

Maria: Yeah. Give it, give it a time limit. Um, [00:18:00] and, and then that's kind of individualized to the person too. Um, but then once that time is up, go and do something that feels good.

Yeah. That's not like drinking or self destructive, but yeah, go for a walk, drink some water.

Kevin: I was going to say move, like go for a run, right, or, or something. Yeah.

Maria: Yeah. Movement has movement is like my go to thing. Like if I, if I didn't have body movement that would make things really hard. But I read, uh, I read a book one time that equated, well said like emotions have energy and

if we don't move our bodies, then that energy just keeps building inside of us. Yeah. And it's eventually gonna bubble over at some point if you don't get that energy out.

Kevin: Um. Yeah, because we had on, uh, Gina Moffa, a few episodes ago, [00:19:00] and, um, she just wrote a book, Moving On Doesn't Mean Letting Go.

And She, she made that comment, uh, which I loved, which I think about it a lot now, but like emotions are better in motion. And, you know, we, if we sit with something from the neck up for too long, that can consume us as the word, you know, that you use. So how can we utilize our entire body, um, and put that into motion now we might've been talking about like anger or stress, anxiety. Um, and again, everybody's different, right? So it depends on what that feeling is or how overwhelming that might be. But yeah, to put it in motion, I think is a good thing instead of sitting with it all the time. Uh, that's what I used to do was sit with it, whatever it was, whatever those emotions were that I was feeling or depression or things like that.

Um. Sit with it [00:20:00] and a drink. Yeah. Yeah. Not helping others.

Maria: Yeah. It's a, and I mean, I think for a lot of people sitting is hard to do, right. That's, that's why we drink or why we, why we watch TV or why we play video games or, you know, like something to, to distract us from like the wheels that are going on up in our brains.

So, um, but yeah, so I, I used alcohol for a long time to just kind of. I mean, it became my, my go to for, so that I didn't have to feel, so I didn't have to think about, um, you know, like my mom, my mom leaving this earth sooner than I wanted her to. And then my, so I'm a, I work in, um, in kinesiology and I work with, well, since graduate school.

[00:21:00] So. Since, like, 2000, 2010, maybe? I've been working with people with neurodegenerative conditions, um, which essentially robs them of their physical function. Um, and using exercise to help them maintain physical function, help them maintain quality of life. Um, you know, to whatever extent exercise can, because for most degenerative conditions there are no med no medications, no drugs that will stop them.

Um. And, uh, exercise is a, a great way to slow down that sort of progression, but, um, working with those types of people, there's, I've experienced a lot of loss. You know, you, you work with somebody for years. And eventually they pass away [00:22:00] or, you know, they get too sick that, um, they need to go into like alternative care and, and so I, I kind of figured out that, um, like I was living in a constant state of grief of, you know, like every new person that I was going to work with, I knew that they were going to deteriorate.

It's like, I met you today and I, and I, I can project. You know, like I can see where this is going to go and, um, and that would, I mean, it's, it took its toll and I used, I used alcohol to just kind of like numb out from that because, um, you know, I, I care about the people that I work with and, um, I've lost a lot of people that I've worked with.

And, um, I figure, I, I figured out that one [00:23:00] of the things that. needed to change was I just kind of needed to take a step back from that portion of my work life. Um, I don't, I don't have the ability to compartmentalize those sorts of things. Um, just, it's not part of my makeup and I, I got to a point where I, I really saw that, like, I wasn't even able to show up for myself, let alone show up for my wife or, you know, I'm a professor and, you know, I was pretty much just, like, surviving life.

Like, each day was just a grind to get through and, um, I would, I would look at the clock and just be like, there are so many hours left that I have to get through today. And, like, having that mentality was...[00:24:00]

Um, and so it wasn't kind of going back to what I said earlier, you know, I thought that like giving up drinking was going to solve everything and like I can, I can very clearly see now that drinking was a problem, but it wasn't the problem.

Kevin: It was the, it was the, it was the shitty bandaid you were trying to put on.

Yeah. Real problem. Yeah. Yeah.

Maria: Yeah, I had to, I mean, I had to make a really hard decision to, to step away from that work because, um, you know, it was very gratifying knowing that I was helping people and, um, I mean, I, you know, everybody around me kept saying like, but you're doing such a great thing and you're helping so many people and like, and I could see that.

Yeah.

Kevin: And those people were loving the fact that you were helping them too, you know, I'm sure. So, uh, yes, but. [00:25:00] That can still obviously take a toll.

Maria: Yeah, and it was, it was coming at the cost of my, my own mental health and, um, it took, it took me a long time to really, uh, really come to grips with the fact that I, I knew that I needed to step, step back from that.

I just, it was really hard to, to pull the trigger on that. Um, and, and part of that was also, um, in, in academia, you. Well, where I am, one of the ways that we get evaluated is through our service to the community. And so it was kind of also like a checkbox for my, my own career development. Um, and so I was pushing myself to stay in this thing for my, I mean, it was twofold, right?

It did serve me for sure. I [00:26:00] can't say that it wasn't self serving. But also the, the people that I was working with, it was, It was just a really hard thing to, to step away from, but, um, once I did, it was like the weight of the world was, was lifted and you know, there, there are other people in place that are doing probably a better job than I was that are able to continue on what I was doing and what I helped to create.

And that in conjunction with giving up drinking and, and really doing a lot of soul searching, into, like, what do I want to do that is going to bring me joy? Not just like, what are the things that I need to do to serve? Because I'm very much a, like, I've always been very heavy into community service.

Um. But what is it, like, what are some things that, that serve Maria [00:27:00] and, um, what are the things that I can do to bring myself joy that aren't just, like, to improve upon my career or to get the next promotion or, you know, like, we're in such a, a fast paced. Society where the messages like continue to, to strive for more and get the promotion and go higher and higher.

And it really had to take some time to evaluate, like, what am I doing? Pretty young and I'm really struggling right now. I have a lot of life ahead of me and I want to want to do that life.

Kevin: Yeah. I have a lot of life left in front of me. And if I do that, if I continue to do this, that's again, the joy, uh, won't be there.

Yeah you'll be helping people, you will get satisfaction from that, [00:28:00] from being there for them. But, um, you can also do that in other ways too. And so you, when you say you took a step back, was that like in 2022, like you kind of did, I stopped drinking, took a step back from there.

Maria: Um, no, so that was, uh, May of 20, May of this year, so May of 2023.

Okay. Yep. And then I stopped drinking May 30th. And so this is all like, all relatively new, but it's going well so far.

Kevin: Yeah. Well, that's good. And I'd love to touch on that too. I was curious, like you said, you went about, it sounds like, My math is rusty, but, you know, you went like nine months, uh, when you joined reframe and about nine months not drinking and then nine months maybe trying to,[00:29:00] or working on moderating, or maybe you weren't even, uh, I'm not sure if you just said I'm done with this for now, or could you tell us a little bit about that?

Um, yeah. Um,

Maria: at first, at first I was thinking like maybe I could just moderate. Um, I, I've heard, I've heard some people talk about this in the meetings, um, but kind of like, I don't want to say self care burnout. I don't really know what the proper term for it is, but, um, you know, like throwing, throwing themselves like full in doing all of the meetings, all of the readings, like reading all the like just immersing their lives into sobriety.

And then getting to a point where they're like, I'm exhausted. And, and I think that's what, where I also was. I was [00:30:00] trying so hard in my mind to, to fix depression and like make it go away. And so I was like, okay, I need to do my daily, my daily tasks, do my daily gratitude. I'm seeing a therapist. I'm exercising regularly.

I'm, I was checking all of the boxes. Right like as if there was a score sheet like yeah, I got all the points for every day But I but I wasn't doing I wasn't doing I wasn't addressing The thing that I was that was actually causing me the most internal distress

Kevin: Yeah. And that's what I was just thinking.

I'm like, you were checking boxes, but the question that I think we should ask ourselves is are we checking the right boxes? You know, is this, you know, am I focusing on the easy ones versus [00:31:00] I know this thing's over here. That's probably a little bit more, uh, needing, uh, addressed. And sometimes we just don't know how to do it, right.

We don't know where to start. Um, Okay. But yeah, it can be easy to fall into that. Like I'm doing something right. Um, and that's good. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. I know I got burned out on Quitlet at some point. I don't know what book it was that did it, but I was like, if I read another one of these anytime soon, it's I, no, I just can't, uh, I need something else.

Um, and other things along the way, you know, I kind of go all in on, on certain things like that. And, looking and seeing like, am I doing the right things? Um, yes, this helped me a little bit. Is it continuing to help me? Um, so what was that then that go ahead? I'll, uh, Oh, I did you there.

But, um,

Maria: No, you're, you're absolutely right. And I, um, [00:32:00] I think it was Annie Grace. I was listening to a seminar or something that she was doing. And, she said. Instead of trying harder try different and I was just like, holy shit. You just blew my mind Yeah, I was like I've been trying so hard at all of these things and That's when I was like, okay.

I got to do something different this time

And yeah, so like in in those Those nine months in between, like last year and this year? Um, I don't know. I was kind of like on and off. I mean, I would go a little bit without drinking and then like moderate and, um, and then just, uh, you know, like if my, if my wife was gonna be gone. Uh, one of the hard things was when I was alone by [00:33:00] myself.

And it was like I didn't really know how to be alone. And it was also, I gave myself the freedom to drink as much as I wanted. But I always felt bad every time I did it. Like, like it didn't feel good. It didn't feel like the treat that it used to feel like. It was, like, full. Every time, I was full of remorse and regret and just, like, disappointment in myself.

Like, what the fuck am I doing, you know? Um, and, and after, you know, enough time doing that, I, that was when I said to myself, I need help from people outside of myself. Like, it's clear that I'm not in a good spot right now, and I need different from what I had been trying to do, and, and that different was really like throwing myself into the Reframe community, and.

Being active in the community [00:34:00] and sharing in meetings and listening and engaging in the forum.

Kevin: I mean... Did you do any of that, like, the first nine months? Did you go to meetings? Did you do the forum? Anything like that?

Maria: Nope. Uh uh. I did not even... Like, I looked at the forum a couple of times and I was like, nah.

Yeah. I don't, I don't need this. Yeah. In, in true tourist fashion.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's hard not to, right. It's right there in the app and, and where everybody can communicate, share wins, you know, where they're feeling, well, if you want to call them losses, wins, what they're going through and people can share, respond, give feedback, give support.

Um, so yeah, it's natural just to at least go in there and look around. Um. But yeah, I get it with not wanting to put yourself out there.

Maria: Yeah, I, I was, you know, I just kind of figured like this is just the thing that I'm doing [00:35:00] and it's going to be easy and I'll just, I'll figure it out as I go. And, um, yeah, this, it's, I think the, the community has really made all of the difference.

And just knowing that there are like, logically, I know that I'm not the only person doing this. Yeah. Right? Like being in a one hour zoom session where you're with people from all over the world and just, I think there's, there's power in knowing that there are other people out there that are working on the same thing as you, um, all different types of backgrounds.

Um, you know, I've, I've been to AA meetings and I just, I know that a lot of people love [00:36:00] it and it just didn't, I just couldn't connect with it. I mean, I've never been to an AA meeting where I like, I can always take something positive away. But there was a lot that I could not really connect with.

And the first couple of reframe meetings that I attended, I was like, Oh. Like this is, this is the place for me, this is, yeah, and I know that there's a lot of overlap, um,

Kevin: I mean, there's, there's many, yeah, whether it's a, a reframe, there's, there's many other, um, communities out there and we're all essentially sharing and talking about the same thing, but maybe in just a little different ways.

Right. And that's, I think. The important thing is that there's different ways to talk, you know, so that you hear, you, you might hear something that clicks with you. Um, cause yeah, [00:37:00] I mean, there's no one thing that's going to just click with everybody and be like, Oh, I'm all in. Like, you know, it's definitely like your therapist said, like, well, it depends on the person, you know, it's, um, it goes with pretty much everything.

So. Finding that community that works for you and trying new things in order to, um, get there. Right. Don't. Don't try harder to make the, that, that meeting that you're going to work, try, try, try something different. Right. Um, yeah, I do like that. So right in May, June, you know, timeframe would, would, when you started.

How did that feel going to your first meeting and, uh, and sharing then maybe, maybe that wasn't the same. Maybe the first meeting and your first share is different, but, how was that to, to put yourself out there in that setting?

Maria: Um, you know, I was, I was definitely nervous at first. I think I was [00:38:00] in one of Prakruti's meetings for my first share.

Um, I was a little bit nervous, but like not scared. I mean, everybody is, everyone's so welcoming. Um, and, and everybody gets it, it's, and I think that's where the, the word community has so much power, is that, like, everybody understands why you're there, everybody's story is very different, but you're all there for the same reason, and there's, there's no judgment, there's no, like, why didn't you do this sooner, or, there's none of that, it's just.

You can say whatever you're gonna say, and people recognize that, like, that's your truth. And, like, who am I to say that, like, you can't, like, you can't say something wrong [00:39:00] if it's, if it's your, your life and your truth, right? Yeah. Um, so I, I very much felt that from the community. And so, um, you know, of course the first time you do anything, you're going to be a little bit nervous, but yeah, but I wasn't scared.

So, and, and of course, you know, it's just like, everybody gives you so much support and praise and. being there on day one is just as powerful as being there on day 500. And I can really, really feel that and, I don't know, I think I'm at like day, I'm a little over four months at this point, I don't know the exact day, but, um, I, I really appreciate the message that every day is still day one, and I think it was actually one of your meetings, when I think you said something [00:40:00]about, when, on the days when you don't feel like putting in the work or putting in the effort, like that's when you need to show up. And I think I've been, been feeling that a little bit recently. Where I'm, I think I'm, I wouldn't say getting to the point of like burnout with this, but, um, just, just busy with life, you know,

Kevin: show up meeting the context being show up at like a meeting.

Yeah,

Maria: yeah. Okay. Yeah, or do something in the reframe app or do to me It's like do something that's supporting my sobriety Because I started this time around in the summer which is for a professor we kind of have like Not off, but less work during the summer. So I had a lot more free time during the summer.

So I was doing meetings, like, all the time. And then school started, so, I'm a lot busier now. And just not, like, literally have [00:41:00] class and work during the, during the meetings. So it needs to be a lot more intentional about, when I'm getting on meetings and putting in the work and showing up and...

I think just not getting complacent with it is really important.

Kevin: With that, I think not getting complacent is always a good thing to keep checking in on yourself with like, right. If you have, whether you're cutting back or quitting, like if you're seeing success with what you're doing, then it's like a lot of people have that.

Tendency to be like, well, I don't need to do that anymore. I'm good. So why would I need to do that? And it's backwards thinking, because when you need to do that, because that's why you're doing well, like, that's why you're good. Um, so, you know, if you don't do that, then there's a tendency to start to slide back into old behaviors.

And that's not, that's not the case for [00:42:00] everything or everyone, but, you know, over time there's plenty of things that I. Did that I needed to do at a certain point in time that I either don't do anymore, or, you know, I talk about journaling all the time. Like it comes up every meeting, even though I try not to, because I'm just like, everybody's like, okay, Kevin's going to talk about journaling again.

Um, I probably said this, this exact thing already on a podcast episode. Um, But I did that every day for a year and in some, in some fashion. And after a while I was like, I don't know that I need to do this anymore, but I kept going with it and now I'm able to use it when I need it. Like I pulled it out last week, a couple of times.

And you know, I, I haven't, I have an app and I just went in and I just started typing because I needed to. Do that thing, um, same thing with meetings, like, you know, after a while, maybe you don't need to go to meetings all the time, so if you're hitting [00:43:00] all of them, and that can be that same thing as like the quitlet, like, I can't look at another quitlet book.

I can't go to another meeting right now, but maybe you just pull that back a little bit, like, which ones are supporting you the most? Can you make those? Um, but you also know they're still there too. Right.

Maria: Yeah, I think there's a little bit of, um, like, I feel like I'm doing well right now with not drinking, but there's also that little bit of fear of like, well, I made it nine months last time and then, you know, and then I didn't.

Um, so there's, and I have a couple of reframe friends who are like. Uh, one of them just did their speaker share and she was like, so who's next? And I'm like, I got it. I got to get past that nine month mark before I, I feel like I'm, you know, it's like there's that and it's, it's not like it's a, I [00:44:00] don't feel like I have a milestone that I'm trying to necessarily hit with sobriety specifically because I'm like, like, this is it.

Like, I don't really care about counting days because. I'm like, this is a forever thing. So counting date for me is like, not, not a huge thing. Um, but there is a little bit of, I need to get past that, past that nine month mark to make, to, to feel like. More confident, I guess.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes sense. Uh, yeah, that's, that's how I feel with, it's not just about this, like with everything.

Like I feel like I can't, I can't talk about something unless I've kind of know inside and out what could possibly come up about it. Or I don't like to overextend myself and talk about things that, [00:45:00] you know, it just doesn't come across as genuine or something. I want to talk, I want to share and talk about things that.

I'm comfortable with. But also realizing that you're at four months, a little over four months, you've had experience with, going nine months and then you had that experience in between and. I always think like there's a lot of people on those speaker shares, um, and just so everybody knows, this is not a pitch for her to do, do a speaker share meeting and share on zoom.

Um, but right, you know, the way I always look at it is like, you have, there's a lot of people who are on day one who are on, you know, a week or struggling with that, that, that you can offer that support to, um, and help, uh, because right. I mean, , if we're strong, if we're feeling good and, um. Which comes and goes, [00:46:00] you know, um, there's no like line, we have to get to that. Okay. I, I crossed now I can do this thing, whatever this is, right?

Maria: It's like I've hit, I've hit this time like I'm doing Ty, right? Like

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

I know. And and I'm the guy in the meetings who corrects people when they say, I'm only. I'm only 20 days. I'm only seven days. I'm like, you're not only seven days. You're seven days. You have seven days. You went a week, went through a weekend at some point. Like, you know, yeah, it's not only, it's not just, um, you know, it's recognizing that these things aren't easy.

I, I went one time in my life, almost 30 days. I didn't even make it 30 days. In my adult life without drinking, um, and I was doing some, I don't know, nutrition thing, um, where they've removed alcohol. So I was, you know, and that was years ago. Uh, [00:47:00] but that was like the only time in my adult life that I went more than a couple of days without at least a drink. Um, so when I did that, you know, I was like, Oh, okay, this is new. Um, seven days without drinking. I kind of felt bad about it at first, but then I'm like, whatever. I'm like, of all my friends, that's pretty much par for the course. Um, with a lot of people. So, yeah. Um, and also, you know, so you, you had mentioned too in August, I think of 22, you know, you also had some extenuating, I don't want to say extenuating circumstances, but you had outside factors, right? That, you know, you said you lost two friends. Yeah.

Maria: Yeah. My, uh, my best friend's sister passed away unexpectedly. And, um, and right before that, one of my [00:48:00] One of my clients who I'd I'd gotten real close with her and you know, the interesting thing is like she was also sober She was I think she was 73.

She left she and her husband left on a summer trip and you know, she was gonna be gone for a couple couple weeks and then we were gonna pick back up working together and And I got a call. It's like a week before they were supposed to return that she had passed away Um, and, you know, I, I think it, that and my friend's sister passing away, like, just hit so hard, partially because they were, like, really close.

But also, the expectation of seeing them again, um, that was like a [00:49:00] similar scenario to when my mom passed away. Um, I was leaving on a summer trip when my mom was. Sick and I was gonna be gone for a couple of weeks and you know expecting to come home and see her again And she passed away when I was gone.

And so those You know those scenarios were I think close enough in just the way they happened that I was just like fuck this Try to open a beer And I didn't feel good about it. You know, like I I just, I didn't know, I just didn't, I didn't have the tools or the capacity to, to really like, constructively handle it.

I think everything happened the way it did, because it had to, in order for me to get to where I am now, [00:50:00] and start having like real conversations with my therapist about like, how do, how do I handle grief? Um, how can I do this without harming myself and feeling like a disappointment to myself?

And that was like, I just got to the point where I was, I was tired of being disappointed in myself and tired of. I was tired of drinking. Like, I didn't want to do it anymore, but it was like, I felt like it, like, I didn't know how else to escape. Yeah. And, to learn tools and learn ways so that you don't feel like you have to escape, but you can, you can actually feel those hard feelings without feeling like they're going to just completely dismantle you, um, is hard.[00:51:00]

Um, but it's, being sober is worth it.

Kevin: Yeah. I mean, yeah. What, uh, what tools, so you, I mean, you talked about how your therapist said, like, sit with it, right? Feel the wave. Mm-hmm. , you know, actually feel those feelings versus trying to numb them with alcohol or, or anything else. Um, and then moving through it to, uh, anything else that helps you with that?

Maria: Um, definitely talking about, those things. I do have a therapist and she's wonderful. I talked to my wife about things. Just I'm, you know, I always just bottled everything up and just pushed it down. I was like, I don't mind. I'm not going to deal with this. I'm not going to talk about [00:52:00] it and I think a lot of us do that because. Nobody wants to have those hard conversations.

Kevin: Um, I was, I was great, good, fine. Okay. All the way up till I was 39 years old

Maria: and you're fine until you're not.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Until. Yeah. Like I said, we can push it down as much as we want. We can try and hide it, but it's going to come out somewhere, uh, eventually if we, if we keep doing that without either processing it or just working through whatever it is that's perhaps eating at us.

Maria: Yeah. And um, I think, you know, for me for sure, the biggest thing is like dealing, dealing with loss. And I think, you know, it's because I had slightly traumatic sort of event when I was younger. Um, yeah. And, um, that's, you know, those are conversations that I regularly have even when I'm not necessarily sitting in [00:53:00] grief but still.

Working through conversations with my therapist on, um, you know, like, just talking about kind of like the, I mean, death is a natural part of our life cycle, and so Really like wrapping my head like into it logically. I know that right? I'm I mean, I I'm a kinesiologist I I know all about the human body and how it works.

Like I know that we are all going to die at some point I think my struggle is I just want it to be on My terms and my timeline, which is never going to happen, but, there was one thing that my therapist told me that, I, I'm not really a religious person. I was raised Catholic, but I'm not super religious.

I would say I'm. spiritual in, in ways, but she was telling me about an indigenous tribe, I think in like, um, [00:54:00]somewhere in the islands of the, the Pacific, where they view, um, they mourn birth and they celebrate death because they view the soul is essentially like, Encapsulated in the human form for a period of time when it's here on earth and then when The body dies the soul gets freed again and gets to, you know, kind of do whatever it's gonna do whatever you, you know however, you want to wrap your head around that and I think as humans a lot of us are like spending a lot of time trying to make sense of life and like Why am I here?

What's my purpose? Right? Um,

Kevin: and I just finished reading, uh, I just finished reading Man's Search for Meaning. I know what you mean. I go down that rabbit hole a lot to think [00:55:00] about that stuff.

Maria: Yeah. And so, I mean, I've spent a lot of time, especially like I'm getting, I'm 38, I'm getting closer to 40 and, I think I'm just kind of like at a point where,

I, I recognize that my, all of our time here is finite and what do I want the rest of my life to look like? Like I, I do actually have some amount of control over that. And for up until now, I've just kind of spent my time grinding through and just numbing my way through. Yeah. Yeah. Like being successful, but.

Just kind of like, well, okay, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing and not really stopping to think of like, is this something that I actually want to do? So that's kind of where I'm at right now. I'm like, well, what is the next thing that I want to do? Because I am kind of at a You know, I got the [00:56:00] last promotion in my career that as a professor that I can get.

And so I'm kind of like, well, I'm just going to like hang out here for a little bit and see what presents itself and not necessarily say yes to the first thing that comes along, but really try to evaluate like, is this something that's meaningful to me?

And is it going to bring me joy? Yeah. And can I do some good for others along the way? I think that's kind of like where I'm at right now. Well, still saying staying sober, of course.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. And I totally understand that. I was, that's where I was about three years ago. Um, same thing, but uh, and it's, it's hard to go.

Okay. Well, what is that? What is that thing? Right. Or I have been going down this road for so long, but I think we have to ask ourselves, is that it, is that just, is this what we're going to [00:57:00] do? And, and evaluate it. And sometimes that's, you know, if we can't, we can't just change, right?

We can't change everything. I mean, we can at any point, I think we can change, but it's sometimes the hardest thing to do depending on, you know, where we're at or if we feel trapped in whatever we're doing or, it can be hard, but how can we little by little work towards something that we, um.

Want, and what is that, you know, what, what does bring me, uh, joy, whether that's from, and that could be in our work, that could be in our family life or relationships or friends or, you know, or other, or something else. Um, And you said, that's a, that's a question that sounds like a, kind of a fundamental question for you now, it's like that question that you, [00:58:00] ask all the new things coming into your life.

Like, you know, it's like the bouncer at the door, like, is this going to, um, bring me joy? Okay. You can, you can come in, um, and if it doesn't, we'll throw you out. But, but yeah, what are the, some of those things that.

that you're finding here this time around?

Maria: Yeah. Um, so when I was in college, I was on the rowing team and I have missed that sport dearly. There's just something so special and serene about being on the water. And I live near the ocean, very close to the ocean. And there's no rowing here, but there's something called outrigger paddling and it's a Hawaiian sport.

Think of like a really big canoe with six people in a row. And out paddling on the ocean and it's so fucking cool. So I started doing that, [00:59:00] uh, back in June and, you know, started racing with the team and pretty involved in the club and it's, uh, you know, it's such a cool. You know, speaking, going back to the word community, it's an amazing community.

It's, I think the youngest person there is like seven. And the oldest person is, like, 85. It's got, you know, you've got the whole spread of ages. And, much like the Reframe community, everyone is just like, you want to try it? Like, just, we're gonna swoop you in, and we're gonna teach you, and you're one of us now.

And it fulfills, that, that need for movement, being outside for me is huge. Just being able to connect with, with nature is a really big, a big thing for me. Um, and having that community has been just so transformational. And that's, you know, I do that. two or three times a week.

Um, and that's, [01:00:00] that's been really big for me. And it, and you know, like talking about like what's going to bring you joy and like doing some like life changes. I mean, that's, it's a relatively small thing, but it has made a huge impact. And I think that's, uh, you know, Prior to where I am now, when I was trying to figure out like, what brings Maria Joy?

I was like, gosh, do I have to find a whole new career? Because that's daunting. Yeah, and you know, now that I started doing this sport, it's, my frame of reference and my perspective has shifted and I'm like, okay. Well, how can I, how can I change what I'm doing in the classroom so that I'm having more fun while I'm doing it?

And also how can I, um, you know, doing more workshops and taking some more courses on like learning how to, how to be a better [01:01:00] instructor. Um, I think I'm doing a pretty good job. Right now, but like, you know, it's kind of like shifting where I'm putting my focus and Like how do I how do I create my a more dynamic environment in my classroom?

because you know, I've been teaching the same classes for almost 10 years and The human physiology hasn't changed much in the past 10 years, so I can't really, I

Kevin: can't really change that. Yeah, I could see teaching might get stale after a while, if you're teaching the same subject over and over.

Maria: So just, like, like little things, not, I'm not making huge life changes or huge moves, but, um, you know, taking on new activities, meeting new people, putting myself out there a little bit more, and...

Um, kind of just changing the way I view how I'm doing my work. That's exciting to me. And, before, you know, when I was [01:02:00] drinking and like, I felt really stuck I, there was no way that I could have opened, my mind up to that sort of perspective. My mind was really stuck on like, I need something completely different and I need something completely new.

And I couldn't, I couldn't see the possibility of like, maybe I don't have to change my career. Maybe I can just do it differently. So those are two things that are. Making a big difference.

Kevin: Yeah. And I had to pull up, uh, the quote here. I don't know who it's from. I didn't get that far, but you know, cause that popped into my head.

Like you said, they're little things, right. But you know, this one says enjoy the little things in life for one day, you will look back and realize they were the big things. And I just actually talked about yesterday as a topic. Our wake up reframe meeting was, yeah. What, what small or tiny things that do you do?

And I say, [01:03:00] seemingly tiny that you do that have made a huge impact that you weren't expecting. Um, you know, and just cause we don't know. It could just be the little, the, the smallest thing that helps us is checking whether it's a check in every day, whether it's, yeah, I go here twice a week, but I have this community wrapped around it and I move and we laugh and we, you know, uh, it's that, it's that thing.

That's huge. Um, so yeah, I mean, that's, uh, they're tiny. We say small or tiny or little, but they're really not right. They can be, even the smallest thing can be. Um, powerful in our journey, like help us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, I don't know if you have a rowing machine at your house, but if you need one, I can ship you one.

That's collecting dust in my basement.

Maria: [01:04:00] Actually, I do have one in my garage.

Kevin: Yeah,

Maria: it calls my personal torture device.

Kevin: Yeah, I'll get, I'll maybe get back into it eventually. I'm still working on my knee back. That's my excuse for now. Um, but, uh, so yeah, yeah, that's awesome with. So coming back, coming back full circle. I'm assuming something like the wedding this weekend, you know, being where you're at was, like you said, the memories were, you have the memories.

You'd love to be in there. You loved, you know, seeing, you said it was your brother's two sons, right? Your nephews. And just having those memories, you know, did you approach it in a way that, I mean, were you concerned at all? Or were you like, I got this and, and everybody knows where I'm at and this isn't a big deal.

And he's just seeing if any tips that you'd want to throw out for people [01:05:00] as takeaways, uh, from an event like that. Cause I know that's, that's a big one. That's one of those ones that like, you can't just, you typically can't just say, unless, unless it's just like an acquaintance or whatever, you can't just say, I'm not going to that.

Right. You can, you can say that to a party or get, you know, some kind of, uh, family thing, but weddings a little bit different. So.

Maria: Yeah. Um, so my, my sister knows that I've been working on being alcohol free. I hadn't really told anyone else in my family, and not really for any particular reason, I guess I just didn't.

necessarily feel like I needed to have that conversation. Like, this is something that I'm doing. Yeah. Um, and I don't, honestly don't care what other people think about my life choices, except for like, you know, like my wife, I care about what she thinks, but, um, that's natural. Yeah. But like in general, [01:06:00] I'm kind of like, I'm just, you know, this is my life.

I'm going to do my thing. So I wasn't really concerned going into it. And, when we got to, so it was in Colorado when we got there, we stopped at a, I think it was like a wine and spirit store and got two bottles of non alcoholic wine. So we had that in our, our room. And, um, my. Well, my drink of choice is, um, like a virgin Moscow mule.

Kevin: Um, mine too.

Maria: Yeah, I, it's, it's something that most people know can execute fairly well. I mean, and even if they don't, like ginger beer and lime is really good. So, yeah.

So I have like a go to drink and, you know, for people that, you know, maybe don't want other people to know that they're not drinking, like, usually they can make it. You know, they'll make it look, put it in a

Kevin: cocktail glass, put it in that copper, copper mug, not maybe not at the wedding, but [01:07:00] like, uh, when I'm on it, when I was at a bars, I was like, yeah, I want to do like, do you want it in a copper mug?

I'm like, yes, I want it to be,

Maria: um, so yeah. Well, and also like I had my wife with me and I knew that, like she was also going to be not drinking. I, the one thing that was a little bit, I would say a little challenging maybe, um, so I have, I have a, I have celiac disease so I can't have gluten and there's a gluten free brewery in Golden, Colorado that has actually like really good beer.

And my brother and his. Now wife, you know, like being thoughtful, like they made sure that they got some of that beer and I was like, oh, I can't drink it So that was like that was the only piece that I was like, man I kind of wish I could drink that not because [01:08:00] I wanted the alcohol But because like I actually like I do like the taste of beer.

I drink non alcoholic beers and I enjoy them and so that was one little piece where I was like And I kind of wish, kind of wish I could drink that, but otherwise, I wouldn't really say like food is better when you're not drinking. The food was phenomenal, like, and the desserts, I am a hundred percent certain that if I had been drinking, I would not have recalled any of the desserts or.

Probably even

Kevin: eat in the desert in lieu of, yeah, that's what I always did.

Maria: Um, and the sunset was beautiful. It was like at the, on the top of a mountain in Colorado. And, I spent a lot of time on the dance floor, dancing with my nephews, dancing with my wife. Um, so yeah, I would say, you know, for, for people that, if they, you know, going [01:09:00] to events, um, or really doing anything that the.

The biggest thing that I have learned is that you have to have a plan going into it. Um, if there, if you're going to be in a situation where you know that you're like unsure or there's going to be alcohol in your, you just kind of like, well, I'll just play it by ear and see how it goes. Like, you, you have to have a plan.

You have to know, like, I have a drink that I know, like, I know the ingredients so that if the bartender is like, how do you make that? You know, a non alcoholic mule is pretty easy. They usually have ginger beer. Or, you know, like, if they don't have that, I'll, get a soda or whatever. But having a plan and that's something that I really appreciated the Reframe app for is...

The prompts where they actually have you like think of specific scenarios and and make a plan for how are you going to What are you gonna do in this scenario? That's something [01:10:00] that the this second time around. I really put a lot of thought and effort into because I I know that for myself, if I just wing something, if there's going to be a little bit of a question, then, you know, things could go south really quickly.

Yeah. So.

Kevin: Yeah. And that's. Yeah, that's exactly the word I was thinking of. Like if you just wing it, right. You'd be like, Oh, I'll be fine. I've done this before, or it'll be good. I'll just, I'll just tell people now. And then you get into that environment and you haven't thought through it. It can be easy to.

Start being like, well, you know, it's my brother's wedding and it's, you know, he's in, it's, you know, it's this and that. And, uh, you have to deflect 50 questions that kind of get you anything and all that. I mean, it wears on you, so you can't plan for every scenario, but you [01:11:00] can plan. And I think that's important to at least think through it.

And, um, put as much thought into it as, you know, as you're able to, as far as just, okay, well, what happens when, I mean, we know how weddings work, right. And what happens when. You know, uh, the music starts and I want to dance, but I've never danced without drinking before. Like, what do I, what am I going to do?

Like, how am I going to handle that? Uh, you know, maybe I, maybe I make myself scarce at that point and just go take a walk to let people get started. And then I'll come back when more people are on the dance floor and nobody cares anyway, you know, cause they're probably most people are drinking. So, um, perhaps, uh, But yeah, and just, but, but having that plan, having that thing to, I'm going to leave at this time from, not necessarily a wedding, but from anything, I'm going to leave at this time.

I'm going to tell these people, I'm not going to tell these people I'm going to, um, bring my own [01:12:00] beverages or whatever. Um, yeah, plans. Huge.

Maria: Yeah, yeah, and the cool thing was the morning after the wedding one of my my brother's wife's best friend She was like, so do you not drink or like what's what's up with that?

Because she saw me ordering non alcoholic Moscow mules and actually at one point it was like I'm gonna get that next because I need to stop drinking that was like at the wedding and so the next morning she was like, so do you not drink or like, not like in a judgmental sort of way, but like in a curious and I said, yeah, no, not anymore.

I just, you know, trying to make some, some positive lifestyle changes and it became a coping mechanism and it wasn't serving me well. And so she was like, that's awesome. She said, I'm going to take that and I'm going to think on that. Yeah. [01:13:00] And, and that was it, you know, and, my sister's really supportive.

My brother was really supportive. And, um, yeah, every, everyone that I've talked to about it has been either like, like, okay, whatever, that's cool. Or, you know, just. Or has, has been close enough to know that like the darkness that I had been sitting in that like, this is a good move for me and has been real, real supportive.

So, yeah,

Kevin: that's great. Um, yeah. We're curious themselves and yeah. And that's, uh, yeah. And that's like, whether you're, it's planting the seed for her or just. Being, you know, something to think about, like she said, and, but you allowed them to do that, uh, [01:14:00] right by, by, yeah, just being honest and open about it yourself.

Um, yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for, for sharing about that. Um, and thank you for sharing all of this with us. Um, anything else that you'd like to throw out there as a, any parting words or anything? Um, I don't know if I have

Maria: really any big future plans as of this moment, I'm trying really hard to, uh, To, like, be present and live in the moment, but I mean, the biggest thing for me has really been leaning into, leaning into community and, um, not trying to do everything on my own. Um, I spent a lot of my life bottling up feelings, not, trying not to feel [01:15:00] feelings, doing everything that I could to avoid them, and and so, you know, feeling the feelings is, it's not easy, but it gets, it gets easier to do it with practice and having a community that you can lean on makes a world of difference.

So lean into the. Lean into the reframe community would be my, my big suggestion.

Kevin: Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate you sharing and coming on today. So, uh, yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks Maria. Thank you all for listening to this week's episode of the reframeable podcast brought to you by the reframe app.

Reframe is the number one app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. If you [01:16:00] have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app.

com. Or if you're using, the reframe app, go into the app and give it a shake. And when the box pops up, ask a question and let us know, uh, what you want us to talk about. I want to thank you again for listening and be sure to come back next week for another episode. Have a great day.