Socializing Without Alcohol: Tips and Tricks for Success

Kevin: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of the re frameable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more.

Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass. This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app.

Emma: And I'm Emma Simmons. I'm a Reframer, a certified life coach and Thrive coach with Reframe.

Kevin: Ola geez. That was, that took a few takes to get through that paragraph.

Emma: Sometimes I think when you've read the [00:01:00] same thing over and over again for so long, your brain just, I don't know, switches off, doesn't pay attention.

And you're left to your own devices.

Kevin: That's how it started and then snowballed from there with me trying not to laugh at myself and all kinds of stuff. So this episode is starting off great. This

Emma: episode is brought to you by A DHD.

Kevin: Yes. As they all are, but we are nine minutes into recording and we've been on for long, much longer than that, talking about these things and we're just starting out, so it's gonna be a good show.

We we got, we worked out all the kinks, right? Did we?

Emma: How long predictions, how long before we go off on a tangent. We've already gone off on a tangent. Yeah, that was wason.

Kevin: That was about yeah, a minute and 30 in is it a tangent though, if I meant to do it? Yes. I think it still is.

Emma: Maybe we should take take bits from our listeners on like how long before one of us derails the episode?[00:02:00]

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Like for the next one, we'll take, do a poll. How long before derails?

Kevin: Yeah. Or how many who takes us off on the most tangents in an episode. But with that in mind, let's get back to, what are we talking about

Emma: today? July. July?

Kevin: Yeah. Got, this will be released on July 4th. So dry July, damp July underway and July 4th here in the US is a holiday.

I know, I believe Canada had Tuesday was their holiday. Maybe Canada Day. I might be making that up. I should probably search that beforehand.

Emma: Yeah, no, I'm sure. I dunno if it was Canada Day, but it was like a national holiday. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin: I know a lot of people, it's like the Midsummer Midseason, since you're not in summer, kind of break, right?

Emma: Yeah. Actually my kids are on school holidays as well. It's [00:03:00] our winter break.

Kevin: Oh, okay.

Emma: Two weeks of sitting at home while it's raining outside. Yay.

Kevin: Two weeks of sitting at home while it's raining outside. Yes. I was corrected. Is Canada today? I knew that. But I had to, I doubted myself.

Yeah. So what's the temperature there? I don't know why we always go with this, but

Emma: fucking cold is what the temperature is. I don't even know. I, at my watch isn't telling me is it though? Oh, it's not like Ohio Cold. It's New Zealand cold. It's Auckland cold. It's, I don't even know how, where to find what the temperature is.

There's I've got all this technology and nothing's telling me, I dunno, let's go 10 degrees.

Kevin: All right. That's 50 Fahrenheit. That's like my perfect temperature. Fifties. It's amazing's.

Emma: You gotta have socks on temperature or your toe's gonna go purple.

Kevin: Maybe if I go outside, that being said, like it's always 71 in here, which to do the quick conversion [00:04:00] is 21.6 Celsius.

Oh yeah. That's about

Emma: what our aircon is set at or our heat pump.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: 20 two-ish.

Kevin: Yeah. What's I say? I don't leave the house, so it's always 20 ones here, it's always 71 in here. It's lovely. But I know regardless of what season we're in, it's always good I think, to talk about socializing. But here, summer brings its own socializing with the hotter weather.

I'm guessing your socializing is a little bit different, but maybe not. You're not like shut in like me when it's, a couple feet of snow and freezing temperatures outside in the winter here, not where I

Emma: am. Actually, I dunno if we ever get a couple of feet snow anywhere in New Zealand, to be fair I don't think it's I dunno, I don't to the.

Hey, you guys. Yeah, I was thinking about dry July in New Zealand. It's like winter. It's hibernation time. It's, you can totally you can totally. [00:05:00] Kevin's giving me,

Kevin: I distract you. You said I'm

Emma: talking too loud now. I've lost my train of thought.

Kevin: No, I was like, put your mic up a little bit closer to your mouth.

Turn my

Emma: mouth there. There we go.

Kevin: I think it's better.

Emma: Okay. I thought you were saying pull it down and I was like, oh, okay. Anyway sorry guys. Tangent. You are welcome.

Okay.

Kevin: Yeah, sorry about that.

Emma: What was I saying? Yeah,

Kevin: what's the, what are the odds that we get back on track with that?

Emma: Oh, so

Kevin: talking about. New Zealand in socializing dry

Emma: July in New Zealand.

Kevin: Socializing. What do you do with your hands? No,

Emma: so in New Zealand, dry July is in the middle of winter, so it's hibernation time. It's, you can totally avoid avoid social situations and going out. There aren't as many parties. No one wants to go out when it's wet. It's very, winter is very wet in New Zealand, lots of rain.

So I feel like the events aren't all that [00:06:00] big, but dry July in America and in the Northern Hemisphere, I mean in America you've got 4th of July, which is your big party weekend, right? So

Kevin: I mean it's usually 'cause you have in the US we have Memorial Day at the end of May labor Day, at the be first Sunday, or first Monday I guess of, of September. So this is like right in the center, probably optimal weather for people and not me, but optimal weather for people. And yeah, there's, this is when people, I heard somebody today, like if you live close to a lake, you're going to the lake or something like that. That type of thing where people yeah.

Get out and celebrate in some way. Usually outdoors usually with fireworks and just enjoy the weather and the time off.

Emma: Yeah. So how do you do that without, socializing and getting outside is so well connected with alcohol? Yeah. How do you do it? How do you navigate dry [00:07:00] July when you know, like your first weekend is a fricking party day or a party weekend?

That's rough. Yeah. It's I feel for you guys.

Kevin: Yeah. And I know that's, we take that into account when doing the like our challenge outlines for July because it's okay, the third let's try and immediately, 'cause if we're doing dry or damp January, we're not necessarily focused on the third about socializing right then.

Usually people or it's after holidays and everybody is socializing, is winding down. Yeah. Versus now it's okay, dry July starts boom.

Emma: And you're in the thick of it straight away.

Kevin: Yes. And just, watch out just shove you right in there. And it's tough to, one of the biggest things I know that I.

I always like to share when we have these types of months where we're due challenges, like sober October, dry January, damp [00:08:00] January. My wife's calling me to ask me what I want to target,

Emma: Calling Broom. Oh no, that's at Walmart, I think. Swedish Fish, no, actually they're not that great. I will take

Kevin: oh, this is your list?

Emma: Yeah.

Kevin: I'm like, Swedish Fish. I'm like, no, my, my coach V won't like that if I doesn't let you do Swedish fish. I have Swedish fish.

Emma: Ah, there were these yum like cherry cream candies. They were delicious. It was like a cherry licorice with like cream something inside. I.

Kevin: They're good. Cherry licorice.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Cherry licorice. Cherry licorice with a cream inside. There's like airhead extremes or airhead bites. I don't think there's other liquorish with bites. Yeah, it's a different, there's a bunch different brands that do that.

Emma: It's really good in America. Saltwater taffy. We don't get that in New Zealand.

I bought a massive bag from whatever bulk food store we were in, and it's [00:09:00] all gone within a month.

Kevin: Did your jaw get ripped from that?

Emma: It's the strongest part of my body now.

Kevin: That's yeah. I don't know. I'll eat salt water taffy just because I'll eat anything sugary. Okay. I, she was just checking to see. I saw the text and she called just checking to see if I wanted anything. I'm like, I dunno. Here I'll say surprise me. Surprise surprise me.

Emma: I'm gonna say, I don't know. But then if you come home with nothing, I'm gonna be mad.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. And if she comes home with something that, I'm like, oh, I'm not eating that anymore.

She'll be like, damnit. She's you're eating it now.

Emma: That's like a child when they are hyper fixated on bananas are their favorite food. And then you bring home bananas. They're like, I don't bananas anymore.

Kevin: Oh yeah. My daughter is hyper fixated on bananas at the moment. She's, she makes she makes pancakes with them. She makes bananas and [00:10:00] oats.

I think she's doing, she does smoothies and all that. Like it was. We went grocery shopping on a Sunday. It was Tuesday morning, and we're like, there's no bananas. My Molly was like, we got 10 bananas. What? What's going on here? So now we have a ton of bananas in my daughter's away this week, so

Emma: we Awesome.

Turn that into a banana break. Yeah. Banana life. Banana muffins.

Kevin: All right.

Emma: You can actually peel them and freeze them, and then you can put them in smoothies later.

Kevin: Yeah, I have heard of that. So these are all things that you can do in try July, right? Are we keeping this in? Yeah. As well. Getting, having snacks, having the things that you enjoy is definitely something to have, especially a tool to help, especially on a holiday.

What were we talking about though? We were talking about like the social aspect of, oh, so we were talking about starting off with

Day four of dry July. And with all of those, [00:11:00] dry damp January, dry damp July, sober October, all those types of things, the if you slip up in some way, who cares? Keep going. Now, I don't say who cares to give you permission to slip up and be like, eh, it's the 4th of July.

Like, Challenge yourself. But that doesn't mean that if you slip up. If you have a drink, if you drink more than you intend to, depending on what your goal is and what you're doing, that you can't just come back on July 5th and start over. Yeah. Or sixth or seventh, it's what can you learn from a month like this, I think is always important.

And it doesn't end just because you're not perfect.

Emma: Yeah. You don't just, if you do slip up or you do make a mistake, it doesn't mean that you throw the whole challenge out. Yeah. And just go, no, screw it. Didn't work, not gonna do it. You go, oh crap, that was really hard. Okay, let's try again.

Let's, yeah. What happened? Why, how did I slip up? Why did I slip up? Yep. [00:12:00] What was it? Was I Ill prepared for that socializing event? Did I not plan ahead? Did I not, going back to the tools that we talk about so often of have a plan. What are you gonna drink? Cool. You're not gonna drink alcohol.

Awesome. What are you gonna drink? What are you gonna do? You're gonna have banana smoothies. Are you gonna have soda, water? Are you going to have diet Coke? Are you going to have Celsius? Celsius? Probably don't try and have six Celsius in one evening. That's probably not gonna end well. Just thinking about that caffeine.

Yeah, I made that

Kevin: mistake recently, and by recently, like maybe a year ago where we went to a concert and I took a and her friends, it was over a year ago, but it was a concert, it was at night, so it was a small venue, eight. Nine. They went on at nine. So I had a Red Bull right around eight, and then I was going to get the, her and her friends some [00:13:00] drinks.

And I got another Red Bull at 10. And usually caffeine does not matter to me but those two, that night, I might've even had a third, which might've been the issue. I might have had one earlier. And yeah, it was like two in the morning. I was like, I was up still patting up. Usually I can, usually I sleep right through that, but for some reason that night, I don't know if I was amped up from the concert.

But yeah choose wisely with what you're having too.

Emma: In New Zealand we would say have a, which is have think you're welcome, W-H-A-K-A-R-O.

Kevin: WH Okay. Yeah. WH said, I thought that started with an F.

Emma: It's, yeah, like an F. Depending on which part of New Zealand you're from, you'll say it as a F or a W. So there's a town or a small city in New Zealand called Won ini, but it's W-H-A-N-G-A-N ui. Some people say Nui, some people say nui.

Anyway, [00:14:00] another tangent. Great. Yeah, have a think about what you are gonna drink. How are you gonna what's in your toolkit? What are you gonna drink? What are you gonna eat? What's your exit plan? How are you getting there? How are you getting home? Who are you going with? Who's your wing man?

Wing woman, wing person? Do you have one? Wing

Kevin: dog. Sit there and pet the dog the whole time.

Emma: Wing kids hang out with the kids. Kids are hilarious. Yeah. Like at a party like that where you can, I don't know, blow bubbles. Play hide and seek play. Why don't you guys step on 4th of July? Cornhole.

Kevin: Yeah.

I threw out cornhole before. Yeah, cornhole is big around here. Everybody has, every, everybody has the boards and not everybody, but it's, I. Trying to think of what else. Like outdoor, there's that game with the ladder game with the golf balls on the string that you throw and it has to wrap around like the ladder or something.

I don't know. Horseshoes, bocce ball horse. Oh yeah.

Emma: What?

Kevin: I'll have to, I think it's like ladder ball, I think it's called. I need

Emma: to Google that.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Kevin: Let [00:15:00] me check ladder ball and see if that's a thing.

Emma: But yeah, hang out with the kiddos. They're, They're a fun time and I think all the other parents that are full force into the drinking are gonna appreciate having a sober or sober parent to adult to entertain and play with the kids.

And it's fun.

Kevin: That being said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the rebuttal or the the the opposition on this one. They're not your kids, just because you're not drinking, you're not responsible for them. So I'm just gonna throw that out there too. That's where like the boundaries come in oh, you're not drinking.

Go ahead. Yeah. Can you check on them? Now you can babysit the kids too. That's your kids. I'll make sure they, I won't let them do unsafe things if I see it, but I'm not gonna hang up. But I do. It is an option, right? Yeah. But as you were saying that I'll be available

Emma: to call the ambulance if Yeah.

If your child does something silly.

Kevin: Yeah. While I [00:16:00] do, I have done that, like when the, I focus on Hey, what are you guys doing? Go hang out with my daughter, go see what she's doing with her friends or whatever. But yeah I also draw the line at some point. Yeah. I'm not the.

I don't know.

Emma: I'm not putting your kids to bed. I'm not making sure that they eat a healthy meal. That's on you. Oh, no.

Kevin: If you're, yeah. If I'm responsible for that. They're getting Swedish fish and yeah. Red Bulls

Emma: a whole can of Coke for themselves.

Kevin: Yeah. I like, I don't care if you're not my kid.

It's my kid. Don't care. Good time. Yeah.

Emma: Yes, you can have candy floss for dinner.

Kevin: Yeah. So there you go. That's something else to do. But I think the what are we calling the title of this episode? What do I do with my hands? What I, with my hands? Like Ricky, Bobby but yeah, what do I do with my hands? I know that, having a, I call it my security blanket, my bubba is what I call it my Bubba. Now there is a bubba, I think Thermos or like a kind of a big keg [00:17:00] looking like drink order, which I used to have.

But I'm thinking more of the blanky type of security blanket

Emma: safety.

Kevin: Yeah. And I always had my Yeti with me with the can holder, where I just popped a can in there and, whatever. I wanted non-alcoholic and. Yeah, so like just having that thing in your hand. 'cause typically nobody is checking that.

As the day goes on too we be so worried about it, but as the day goes on, think about how we hang out and somebody gets up 'cause they wanna drink. It mean anything. It made anything good. You can just be like, oh, I'm good. Thing could be empty. It doesn't matter. But yeah, sometimes it's just having that thing in my hand.

Also, you know what having those excuses of, it's not even an excuse really. It's oh no, my drink's over there. Or eh, I don't know what I want right now. I'm thirsty. Can you gimme a water? Stuff like that. Just again, I think well. [00:18:00] I think I overthought everything, so I don't wanna speak for everybody, but I overthought everything of okay, what do I say?

If this person says this, what do I say if this person says that? And what I learned quickly is that nobody cares for the most part. Yes.

Emma: Yeah. Yes and no. I've actually recently just had two clients who told me some really shitty experiences where they were out at an event at a function, and their mates, their friends the bros were going, oh, wow, you're not drinking.

Oh, come on. Just come have my what's the point? Just one. Yeah. Just kept, oh, all night. To the point that I had to get quiet, forceful with them. And I was like, that's a really shitty situation, and I'm really sorry that you had to experience that. I, that hasn't been my experience so far.

I don't think, I think maybe the most I've got is a, are you sure you don't want one? Oh, no, I'm good. I'm fine. Thanks. No. I'm doing dry July, or I'm doing, a 30 day [00:19:00] challenge, or I'm doing a thousand hours dry, and they go, okay, cool. So I personally haven't experienced that pressure and that badgering.

Yeah. But it is out there. And I

Kevin: shouldn't say it like I did, where I'm like, nobody cares. I think on the floor, nobody cares

Emma: after, nobody cares tomorrow what you were or weren't drinking. Nobody probably cares in an hour or so what you were or weren't drinking.

Kevin: Yeah. They will forget. But you're right.

And that's the thing. You probably know who is the, who are the people who are going to be like that too though, I could have named Yeah. Any like one or two people probably would've been me to some degree. I usually wasn't an as like that, but I was like. It depends on who it was.

If it was like my brother or something, yeah, I probably would've gave him shit. Oh, I was that asshole

Emma: for sure.

Kevin: Yeah. But it was more of a joking around type of thing, and then [00:20:00] it stopped. And that's what I see a lot of is okay, people push a little bit just to be like, oh, because that's what we do.

We just have these canned responses. Like when you see someone drinking a non-alcoholic beer oh, what's the point? It's because I like the taste of it and it's hot out and I want something different. That's the point. Something

Emma: satisfying. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin: It's, it can be that simple.

Yeah. Of a response.

Emma: I think you made a good point of you, you normally going into event, and this is I guess part of the preparation of going to an event and being prepared. What are you gonna drink? What are you gonna eat? How are you gonna eat home of going prepared? Being like, okay, I think these people are gonna be there and this person will support.

Dry July, this person might give me a bit of shit. So what's my response gonna be? How am I gonna navigate this? And going in with kind of an idea or a preparation, not like you don't have to write yourself a thesis on how you're gonna respond to these people, perhaps a cuddle couple of pre-prepared, pre-prepared responses that [00:21:00] you can throw out of no.

I'm doing dry July. It's a thing with work and we're really competitive and it doesn't have to be a thing with work. It can just be that you're actually just doing dry July by yourself and you're challenging yourself. Or it's a thing with my gym and, we're really competitive, so I'm gonna win the challenge and there's a thousand dollars on the line, or, I don't know, whatever it is, whatever story it is, come up with some kind of preset response of how to shut that person down.

And I guess it depends on how confident you are with Yeah. With your journey. You and I are both confident enough with our journey now that we can go into an event and proudly show everyone our alcohol, free beer or wine and be like, this is great. Have you tried it? It's got alcohol and it tastes amazing.

I feel great. And just,

Kevin: I usually don't do that because I don't wanna, I don't want people drinking my stuff.

Emma: Get your own. It can have some, but I'm not gonna broadcast it. Yeah. But yeah, it depends on how comfortable you are. You may want to [00:22:00] hide your can in a Yeti or Yeah. Decant into another container or whatever.

Or you may be confident enough to go in and just Yeah. Not drinking. Yeah.

Kevin: And

Emma: what,

Kevin: And it's, yeah. 'cause it's easy, like you said, it's, we're confident enough that, yeah. I, I. Don't care at all anymore. If someone's gonna say something, it's Sure. Let's you wanna do this? Let's talk. Yeah.

Let, okay, let's chat. Yeah. I don't care. Okay. Yeah. But, I don't go broadcasting it or anything like that either, because I don't, I don't wanna be that person who's talking about that stuff. And I try not to like, 'cause everybody else, I'm around people who drink, still, and, that's, it's fine.

I don't wanna be that guy that all that

Emma: did you know that alcohol causes seven types of cancer and did you know that alcohol, blah?

Kevin: No. It's like people know that won't be that. And you know, it's that risk, you know, that Swedish fish, and causes whatever uh, you know, there's that [00:23:00] risk involved.

I'm not comparing alcohol to Swedish fish either, but I'm just saying it's not good for you. Um, The uh, yeah, 'cause I was gonna mention like that confidence and it took a, I'll say, it took a while for me to realize eyes that most people I'll say obviously don't care. And most people are like, oh, okay.

Yeah. It's not, it's a non-event in a setting like this. I would be over, let's say if I go to my brother's a pool. If I go over my brother's pool and he has friends over that I know and am friends with and, we're talking, they don't know that I'm doing this. They might call me out really?

You're not drinking? What's going on? And I could just be like, ah, yeah, I'm doing dry July. And it could be that something with work. Now, one thing I did say to people at work was if it was like happy hour or whatever was, oh, I'm doing a I'm doing this competition with my brother and to know, [00:24:00] it's the first one who drinks pays up and I'm not gonna be the one that pays up.

My brother has no idea that he had no, I said that to anybody. He didn't know that was going on. And I still waiting for my, winnings, by the way. But the winning winnings that he

Emma: had no idea he was in a competition about, he owes me.

Kevin: He has a pool though, so I guess we'll call it even the it's just like making that stuff up and I went down the rat, the route of, oh, I'm on antibiotics.

And what I found this happened one time and ever since then, I'm like, Nope, can't use that one anymore. Because someone was like, oh, what do you, what are you taking? What's it for? And I told, and I actually someone that's

Emma: Oh, what do you go on? I actually

Kevin: researched it. I actually researched what antibiotics I was on, and I, so I just, or I just said something that I was on, actually what I said I was on, I'm actually allergic to, so that, it was funny too, but I said that and they're like, oh, someone, they, all of a sudden everybody becomes a doctor and oh, you can drink on that, it's fine because of blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, really? He's yeah, I took him not too long ago and I had to look that up. [00:25:00] And I'm like, okay, I'm not using that one anymore. Let's just stick with the Easys. See, I being on

Emma: antibiotics and the that would, that never stopped me.

Kevin: Oh, I always, that would not antibiotics. Yeah. Yeah.

Emma: That would not fly with any of the people that I know.

They'd be like, whatever. Yeah.

Kevin: Again, I was using that for work and yeah. But but yeah, I think it is just what's the reason that you are doing this challenge in the first place? I think it, it has to come back to that and think about it. What's the reason that you, there's a reason why if you're doing, if you're doing this, not everybody's gonna be doing this, but you can use this for any kind of change that you're making, especially surrounding alcohol, right?

It is like, why do I need to make this change? Why do I want to make this change? And really lean into that. There's a reason that maybe you started dry or damn July to reduce alcohol, and that's maybe you're, maybe summer started off heavy with it, [00:26:00] or it's just, maybe it's just that time of year, that's a good time to reset.

You're maybe doing well at the beginning of the year and it's shifted, or, who knows? 50 million different scenarios here. Different

Emma: options. Yeah.

Kevin: But yeah, what is that reason and how can you use that in your whether it's health, maybe you had issues re recently just, I, I had, I was having trouble with my sleep, so I said that, I've told people I said, I haven't shared this.

I shared something about my doctor once, but saying something to take a break. But I didn't share, this myself, but I've told people like, tell, you know, you having issues with your sleep and you, and they actually went and talked to their doctor. I'm like, your doctor told you not to drink for the next 10 days because of a sleep study that you're doing or or that you're going to do and you need to set a baseline and blah, blah, blah.

Make something up.

Emma: Yeah. I, one of the uh, reasons, let's say I [00:27:00] gave, I my, I started getting really stiff joints and I started getting psoriatic cuff so I was getting this rash over my knuckles to the point where I couldn't pick up a cup of tea. A cup of coffee. And so that when they, when you do the research about arthritis, it's alcohol's a huge aggravating factor.

And so that was one of my reasons. So health was one of my reasons which was an easier. Thing to talk about. Then my mental health is in the absolute gutter. And I was suicidal and I was horrifically unwell mentally. It was easier to say, my joints are sore and I can't pick up a cup of coffee.

'cause everyone goes, oh, you gotta have coffee. Yeah, sure, let's give up our goal for a couple of weeks and then you can get back to it, yeah. So having that that reason which wasn't untrue, but it wasn't the whole truth was really helpful for me. I was just thinking real quick, tangent.

I remember, so before [00:28:00] I got sober this time round, the time that stuck, yeah. I was alcohol free. It would've been February-ish. Yeah, it was summer. It was at a friend's wedding. And it was I'd only been alcohol free for maybe a week, like it was so early in and I was going to this wedding and they had bartender making cocktails.

It was a big flashy wedding and bartender was able to make mocktails as well. But I felt so uncomfortable. I thought everyone was looking at me. Yeah. I thought I was the only one drinking mocktails. I didn't know, I didn't know what to do with my hands. I didn't know how to dance, which sounds weird because you can dance with or without alcohol, but everything felt so foreign to me.

And I reflect on now. I had such a hard time. I went and sat in the car and my husband got pretty shitty with me. He was like, you're being an absolute sad sack. And I was like,

I dunno what I'm doing.

Just like I was an absolute party pooper and I feel really bad that I ruined that [00:29:00] party for my husband.

But yeah, reflecting it was bloody hard, yeah. Being feeling awkward. I, no one at the wedding would've had any idea that I wasn't drinking. No one at the wedding would've given a shit. They probably noticed that I was being a sad sack. Now when I go to an You're allowed, yeah, you're allowed to be a sad sack.

But reflecting now with a couple of years under my belt, when I go to an event or I go to a party, I'm the first on the dance floor. I don't have alcohol to dance. I can, I do still want something to do with my hands though. So I am still one of the first people to go to the bar and get a soda water or a mocktail or a whatever.

I'm one of the first people to order because that, yeah, it's a safety blanket. It's a bin key. It's a what do you call it? A Bubba. Bubba. Bubba. But yeah, I can, I'm, now that I'm comfortable and I understand this, the social how to be in a social setting. Yeah. It's much easier.

I don't know what my point was with that, other than that. I [00:30:00] understand that it's really fricking hard. It can be. Yeah. 'cause

Kevin: It's much easier now in the beginning it's still gonna be uncomfortable. It's still, it's different. You just jumping out. Yeah. It's different. Yeah.

Maybe it's not uncomfortable, but it's, it is different. Oh, I think

Emma: it was uncomfortable. Yeah. No, it was different. Uncomfortable.

Kevin: Oh know, it was uncomfortable. You said different. So I was just like, oh, maybe she was fine going out on the dance floor right away, but I am still not

Emma: I will, I wasn't, when I was drinking was Patty with some terrible dance moves.

I'll start the macina off. You watch me go, I'll get the line dancing going. We're doing the macina. I need to learn more. Tiktoks. I feel like that's the new

Kevin: Ah, okay.

Emma: Sure. Em off your trot.

Kevin: Yeah. I'm just thinking of my just thinking of my daughter doing random shit like that. Yeah.

Emma: You do, you em I'll watch, I'll film.

Kevin: Yeah, I know. We had a tornado warning here recently, so we [00:31:00] won't, it was like, go in a basement and I'm like, all right, we typically don't have those here. But I was like, okay, it looks pretty bad out. Let's just go downstairs. And so we were all just sitting on there. We didn't turn TV on or anything.

We were just doing our own thing, reading. And my daughter was sitting there on the recliner just doing, she was like sitting there thinking I had my headphones on. But I also have my phone there like this filming it, learning a TikTok, and I sent it to her immediately. She just looked over and I'm like you did.

Yeah. I thought you maybe wanted to, check your form. I don't know. But, uh. where were we talking about the being comfortable, uncomfortable, and Yeah it's going to be different, right? It's going to be somewhat awkward to very awkward to just uncomfortable. And it's not, I'm not saying it's like a bad thing, but you just think about it like you're, if you showed up one way all the time with your friends or with, in this [00:32:00] setting and you had alcohol and that helped you, or you might not even realize how much it helped you.

And then you don't, you show up and you don't do that. It's gonna feel, it is going to feel different. So just being aware of that, even just to factor that in and come up with that plan ahead of time. And, come up with that exit strategy so that, once if you are starting to feel like a sad sack, then just leave, go home.

Yeah. And you, there's not a bad thing. Go home, go up the next morning and get back to a good night's sleep. Get a good night's sleep and whatever you want.

But yeah, it just goes back a little bit to what's the reason that you're doing it. Can you just be honest with them? I think, I don't wanna go all like cheesy honesty as the best policy, but what I found is telling somebody what you're doing, I. Especially in advance if I can, if someone's Hey, you're coming over.

Is there anything in particular you want me to get? And you can just be like, oh no, I'm not. I'm taking a [00:33:00] break from drinking. I'll bring my own stuff, don't worry about it. And Oh, really? And have that oh, come on. Really. You can have that conversation in advance. That's a much easier thing because then they can wrap their head around it too.

Emma: Yeah.

I think, yeah, I do think it says a lot more about that person and their relationship or comfortability with alcohol or not drinking than it does about you and yours when they can't, when they struggle to accept that you're not gonna have a drink with them. Yeah. And yeah, I like the idea of having that, giving them the heads up and giving them a couple of days to wrap their head around it because that's a them problem.

Kevin: Yeah. And I hear this a lot. I say, that's so

Emma: trivially and so easily, and I know it's a lot harder than that, but Yeah.

Kevin: It's like people, when they say, which I hate this, when people who.

I'll say don't drink or are working on it, who have that matter of fact, like no is a complete sentence type of thing, which it is. Like you can just say, do you want anything? No. Or, you [00:34:00] can be abrupt and be like, I'm not drinking and that's fine. That didn't work for me. So to be that matter of fact with it, I don't think it's helpful If it works for you, great.

'cause I think it is good to keep it simple and it is all about, you shouldn't have to justify what you wanna do to someone else. That's just, it's not common sense, but it's just like normal. That's if you are working on something for yourself, other people shouldn't really get a vote unless it impacts them.

Which people make it. So that it impacts them. They make it about them and they say oh, we're not gonna have a drink together. To which I say, but we

Emma: always drink together, but we always get, I'm drinking, I'm having a drink. Yeah, I'm having

Kevin: a drink right here. Doesn't matter. What do we do when we have a beer together or have a drink together?

Probably talking. We can still do that.

But people wanna be on that same level.

Emma: That's a funny point. I was, I caught up with a mum from cheerleading that I haven't spoken with in ages. We used to enjoy many many wines [00:35:00] together. And I've been around to their house. I think I went around to their house for like brunch when I was maybe 150 days.

Like I was quite early on. And they toasted my sobriety. They had mimosas in their glass and I just had orange juice, but they were like, this is amazing. Well done. MAE. Anyway, so I caught up with her. So I'm seven days now, so I haven't and haven't. Really cool. Our kids are in different cheerleading teams now, so we don't see each other so much anyway.

And she's oh, we should catch up for a drink. And she's like, or you know, like something else. And I was like, we can go out for a drink. I'll be drinking soda or mocktails or whatever. You can have whatever you want. So there's that. It's a weird, I guess it's just a social thing of going out for a drink means going out for an alcoholic drink, but I can still go out for a drink.

I'm just not gonna have alcoholic in my cup.

Kevin: Yeah, that's

Emma: fine.

Kevin: And I think some people do. What were you gonna say there? Go ahead.

Emma: I was gonna say that's, I dunno what I was gonna say. I, that thought has already gone carry on. Okay.

Kevin: Now let's see if mine [00:36:00] is still here. Or if it left as well.

I think some people, I think I got it. Some people will maybe say that kind of thing because they don't know how I. You are with it. Oh, we can do something else. We don't have to do that. And it's no, I can do it. And it's oh, okay. Versus, because they don't want to, I don't know.

Let's not make you feel bad. It's, they don't, if they care about you, then they don't want to be like, oh, we don't have to do that. We can do something else. I

Emma: think, oh that, yeah. To be fair, in the beginning I probably, if someone invited me out for a drink in the beginning, I probably would've be like, okay, oh yeah, no, I would likeable.

Yeah. Yeah. We can get coffee

Kevin: at noon at Starbucks. Yeah.

Emma: Yeah. It's, and it's, yeah, they don't dunno. They don't know what you're comfortable with yet.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: They don't know where you are at. I guess it's like with anything, if you imagine if you went to a gym and. You could turn it to a gym or go to a gym with your, why do I always go back to the gym [00:37:00] anyway?

And you're turning up with a buddy and they go, okay, we're gonna deadlift a hundred kilos or we're gonna do dead lifts. And you go, okay. They don't know whether you can deadlift a hundred kilos or whether you need to start with the bar. They have no idea because they've not seen you in a long time.

They've not trained with you. So it's, you've gotta educate them to a certain extent of, I can do, this is what I can do. These are my limits, these are my boundaries. I can go to the bar and have an alcohol free drink, or no, I cannot, that's not where I'm at. That's not what I can tolerate.

Or I can go to a 4th of July party and be a golf free, or no, I cannot. I'm going to spend 4th of July doing something that feels good for me, which is

Kevin: dead lifting a hundred kilos.

Emma: That is not a hundred kilos. Oh, that's the goal. I'm up to 80.

Kevin: Not far off. Oh God. You're gonna make me, now I gotta figure out kilos.

Emma: 160 pounds ish.

Kevin: Oh, okay. A [00:38:00] hundred. You

Emma: said that that's light. It is not, I don't weigh 80 kilos. I

Kevin: No, a hundred kilograms.

Emma: A hundred kilograms. No, a hundred kilograms is like 200 pounds. 80 kilograms is like 160 pounds.

Kevin: Yeah, because I was gonna say a hundred kilograms is two 20 80. Oh

Emma: yeah.

Kevin: I'll have to my daughter roughly double.

My daughter's been deadlifted instead. Two I'll, I'll text her and see what, see where she's at. Yeah. She's been getting into that, which is cool. But okay. Sorry for that

Emma: tangent

Kevin: conversion tangent. I was trying, you're talking about the deadlift, the gym, I. Uh, you know, Another thing I, I was thinking of like, oh, I tell someone I'm going, I'm gluten-free and because of my health or because I have to for whatever reason.

And they're like, oh, let's go get pizza. I was trying to think of other, as you were coming up with yours, I was like, oh no, sorry, we won't do that. I'm like, no, it's fine. They have a [00:39:00] gluten-free pizza option. I'll go and get that. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. It's a horrible example.

But it was just funny 'cause you, as you were talking about, I don't know why I have gym pizza all of a sudden floating in my brain.

Emma: That's, I mean I've had the same experience with like at a work function interview, Christmas party, they took us to a seafood restaurant. I don't eat seafood. I think it's disgusting.

And it was, but I didn't kick up a fuss like, oh, I'm not coming to the Christmas party 'cause we're gonna a seafood restaurant. I was like, all right there'll be fries on the menu. There'll be something, there'll be fries, there'll be a salad, there'll be something. There's always something you can do.

So just because I don't eat seafood doesn't mean I'm not gonna go. But I guess that's a boundary that I have or that's a tolerance that I have a boundary.

Kevin: What, or it's a lack of a boundary or a,

Emma: like that I will go to a seafood restaurant even though I don't eat seafood. I don't, that's Oh, yeah.

I dunno if it's a

Kevin: boundary tolerance. Yeah. That's like a

Emma: limit, a level of, [00:40:00]

Kevin: you'll just, it's a, it's an option for you.

Emma: It's something that I'm, I can accept. It's an acceptable experience

Kevin: for me. Yeah. Obviously. Most people aren't going to be like, ah, come on Chad, the lobster.

Emma: It's

Kevin: good. I just, you would

Emma: be surprised.

People are like not even lobster, not even prawns. Yeah. Come on.

Kevin: I'm thinking of Angela and I went to c Jim Gaffigan when we were in Vegas one time, and I just remember this one bit. He do does on, he doesn't like seafood either, and he's talking about like crabs or lobster, like calling 'em like the spiders of the sea or something like that.

And talking about everybody's oh, lobster's so good. Lobster's so good. He is doing like a, I don't know, that wasn't a Boston accent just for everybody on here. I was just mashing a bunch of things together, but he's officer's so good. And he's look. I like butter as much as the next person.

'cause that's all it is. You're just, it's just a butter delivery system that you have there with the [00:41:00] lobster. I always think about that. I just don't wanna

Emma: pay a hundred dollars for it to get that butter in my mouth.

Kevin: Yep.

Emma: I can have it with bread

Kevin: that's cheaper.

Emma: My husband has actually done that for me. One, one year on one of our wedding anniversaries. We went out to the Berges seafood restaurant in Auckland and we knew the head waiter, Matri D guy. And so he was wine. It was when I was still drinking, he was wine peering and he was making suggestions.

And so my husband was like, look, if you're gonna eat seafood, let's like, let's go and get some really good seafood so you can see how good it's, because you've probably just eaten like overcooked fish at home on the barbecue and it's all, deep fried from the fish and chip shop and it's shit.

Okay. So we go out and we have, we get the most expensive fricking everything on the menu and he's it's good, right? And I was like, me, I'd rather have chicken. And he was like,

that mistake, [00:42:00] like it's just, yeah, it's not that I find it disgust, like some seafood I find disgusting, but I was just like me. So like this, I dunno, $50 dish. I.

Kevin: Like when people, yeah, people are like, oh, oysters are so good. And I'm just like, okay, I've had 'em, they're okay. As much as I don't wanna get gross on here, it's like, it's as much as I, I've had cravings. Yeah. I've, as I've had this not before, so I'm good.

I don't need any more of those. I can take those and pretend to like them just like I used to do with cigars. I like cigars. I realized that whenever I stopped drinking was like, oh yeah, when I don't have alcohol to pair this with, to

Emma: not so much fun.

Kevin: Kill the taste.

This is gross. And I smell which I knew that before, but it's not like I did that twice a year. So it's, it wasn't like something I did on a regular basis, but, but yeah. Yeah. In

Emma: terms of like starter dishes, I would much rather have a jalapeno papa than an oyster. Half the [00:43:00] price.

Yeah. Maybe more. And much testier. Yes.

Kevin: So

Emma: I know you love my sound effects.

Kevin: Emma does her own sound effects too, in case anybody's wondering. We don't splice those in.

Emma: It's just Emma being Emma. Oh.

Kevin: So we talked about where did we go from here about seafood lifting weights?

I don't know. We were hammering on the how do we show up? What do we say, what are those things that, how do we show up differently? So there's the friends I. Piece of it. There's the other people side of things. And then I, I kind of always like to think of the, I think sometimes we, or a lot of people, I don't know.

I did, and sometimes I was surprised because I didn't think of this for some reason, and it [00:44:00] was, I was so worried about everybody else. I didn't think about my own cravings. I was like, I'm not drinking, so I have to figure out what I'm gonna say to everybody else. And then I would get into a situation and be like, oh shit, I want to drink.

And so then it's okay, what are those what are the things that you do whenever that thought came up? Your own

Emma: cravings in that situation? Yeah. How do you navigate that? Yeah. I could murder a bottle of wine right now. That's not the best way of saying it, Emma, but that's what goes through my head. Yeah, it's I find changing the channel, like changing the environment physically, removing myself from whatever's going on right there. Yeah. And it may be like going and sitting in the car and throwing a tantrum in the car.

Yeah. Or going home completely. But it may just be, you're at an event and you're with a group of people, it may just be moving away from that group of people and finding another group of people, or it may be going to the bathroom and just having a [00:45:00] moment. And you don't have to physically leave the whole event.

You can just be like, this group of people is not helpful right now, so I'm gonna physically remove myself. Or if you're not at an event, you're by yourself or you're at home and you're having that craving. How do I change the channel on that? I can, oh, go. Going to bed was a waste my mind.

If you've been listening to the podcast for a while or go to my meetings, go to bed beds. I love bed. Or going for a walk. I'm big on walking. I always, that's one of my two favorite tools. Going to bed, going for a walk, getting out, getting a little bit meditative with your walk. Yeah. Whether you're listening to a podcast or music or an audio book whilst you're walking, maybe you are.

Or

Kevin: nature.

Emma: Call it like a solo walk. Solo, no solo walk, sensory deprived walk or something like where you don't have any music in. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. Like you don't have earbuds in and you're actually just enjoying the sound of nature. Yeah, I don't have that. Not so much that luxury.

I live not [00:46:00] too far from a main road, the nature's not.

Kevin: Yeah, prominent mean I'm in a residential area. We have a, we have some woods here and stuff like that. Yeah. That, we could, that I can get that a little bit, but, yeah. Because if I am doing that often enough, I know there will be a time every so often where I, I gotta to put my headphones in and I'm just like, ugh.

I can't bring myself to just listen to another thing and I just walk with all my headphones on. And those are like some of the best walks. Because Yeah, you get to that point where we're made with the phones and everything to consume, we're just trying to consume, constantly, consume everything.

Yeah. I'm trying to read all the books. If I'm not reading a book at home, I, and I'm going for a walk. I'm gonna have an audio book on and listening to that at 1.25, speed to 1.5 speed. Not really. I try and slow it down. It depends on how slow they read, but, but yeah, having that sensory walk, we'll call it.

Yeah. Sensory. Sensory deprivation. 'cause that would be putting the headphones on, I would think.

Emma: Or it would be [00:47:00] putting like ear plugs in and going blindfolded. No noise. Noise. There you go. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Kevin: That reminds me I have to book one. I have a couple a good idea of those. What is it?

Flotation pod sessions? I have, I think you've

Emma: ever done that. I want to though.

Kevin: Yeah. I've done it. It's the first time I thought I was gonna die, but that's only because it was too hot in there and I felt like I couldn't breathe. 'Cause I fell asleep and I woke up in. A couple times, like I dozed off and I woke up and it was just so steamy in there that I was like, I couldn't like, get enough air.

So now I learned to prop it open just a little bit to let some of that air in.

Emma: One of our friends did it and was trying to relax, trying a DH, ADHD friends, trying to relax. And then she, itched, had itch, like went, itch your eye and it's salt water done. So the whole time she was just like,

Kevin: my eye

Emma: is burning.

Yeah.

Kevin: Might as well get out. You might as well get out right then. And there's usually a shower in the room, just rinse off. And there was

Emma: no relaxation happening.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: But yeah, the whole time, with a DH, adhd, she's, I don't need [00:48:00] to do this. Brain's going. And then she hitched her eye and it was all over.

All over.

Kevin: Yeah. Changing. Did you say what? How did you say it? Changing the channel.

Emma: Changing the channel? Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Changing the channel.

Kevin: What's going on? Think yourself like a, it's like a pinball machine. Oh, craving, boom. Redirect. Bounce off of it. And especially if you're at a, if you're at a social event let's just say get together with friends.

That's what I'm talking. I'm thinking summer, but, a, any kind of event, but how can you go do something else? It has to be you remove yourself. Don't sit with it in that same spot if you're around friends and they're talking and all of a sudden you're like, if they're all drinking and and you're sitting there like looking at it, or you're list half listening to the conversation, but all you're thinking about is like, why am I the only one not drinking here?

You know what? And then those cravings are coming. [00:49:00] Just I gotta go to the bathroom. I'm gonna go get some food. I'm going to go get, get yourself another drink, go in the car like you said, or there's plenty of times, depending on whose house I'm at, I can just go in and somebody's watching TV and I'll sit down, maybe fall asleep for 10 minutes.

But redirecting and using your halt am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired get, get some food. Grab that, try and distract yourself enough to show some food in your mouth. Go rest your eyes for a second. Get a different drink like thirsty and just try and redirect and then regroup and focus on, okay, it's fine.

We expected this. Am I good? What else what happened there? Get curious about it and just be like, where did that come from? And it could just be a logical thing, everybody's drinking around me. And so I thought about it 'cause that's what I usually do. And then play the tape forward and think about okay, if [00:50:00] I don't do that right now, how am I going to feel tomorrow?

What's going to be, the result of this? And what's my plan for the rest of the time that I'm here? Can be different obviously, if it's, if said, get together is at your house, that's different. But then I always like to think of it's at, if it's at your house, that's home court advantage. I'll just go to my room then and just hop on the bed for five minutes and just close my eyes.

So nice.

Emma: And your poor wife is like what hap where did he go? Yeah. And you're like,

Kevin: yeah. Just finds a place to hide. Yeah.

Emma: I, you mentioned a hungry, halt, hungry and very lonely tide. And I think in a social setting, food is a, such a great distraction. You can be almost in the middle.

Like someone can be in the middle of a conversation. And if you are having that moment of oh my gosh, this is too much. I wanna drink. You can be like, ah, did you see the, I dunno, sausages are out. I'm like I'm hungry. I'm like, I wanna [00:51:00] go get a snack. You can almost, not interrupt, but it's always a good excuse to leave a conversation.

Like the situation, I get some food. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah,

Emma: maybe that's just my A DHD that I haven't managed to control yet. But

Kevin: no, take, I take any opportunity to

Emma: go get food.

Kevin: If someone says something, I just don't wanna be there anymore talking to that person. And they, and someone says something or I see something like, oh, they put the food out and then I just walk away.

Emma: Yeah. And we done. Yeah.

Kevin: And they just move on to the next person. And it's fine because that's what, that's what you do. I was probably more rude when I was drinking 'cause I was oblivious to social. Yeah. But yeah, that, playing the tape forward, remembering why you're doing it.

Having the exit strategy, all like important tips exit strategy. Yeah. You're going to someplace set a time limit and be like, and if you tell them grade, if you can make something up oh, I gotta go do this. Sometimes it's hard to. Lie about [00:52:00] that because you're, maybe you're on vacation and you're like yeah, we're all going back to the same house.

No, you're not doing that. Yeah. But having an exit strategy, even if it's just to take a break make yourself useful. I would do that. Oh, you need something from the store, I'll go grab it.

Yeah. That type of thing.

Emma: Oh, the dishes are piling up. Let me just help. I'll just put a load on.

Or I'll just rinse these or I'll Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Yeah, make yourself useful or Yeah, the fire needs stoking, you've got a braiser out there, the fire needs, I'll go get the firewood, or I'll, stoke the fire. I'll, whatever it is, make yourself useful. But also that having an extra strategy of planning okay, I'll turn up at seven.

That sounds so late for me. That's almost bed time. I'll turn up at seven and I'll stay for two hours and then, or I'll, and at nine o'clock after two hours check. With myself and is that the time that I want to leave? Or is, or can I do another hour? But, setting yourself [00:53:00] that that expectation or that maybe two hours is too long.

Maybe it's only an hour. Like I'll stay for an hour. Yeah. And then we'll see how I feel. And giving yourself permission to go home after an hour or after whatever that time limit is. If you're having a great time, cool. Stay awesome. Yeah. I'll check in with myself again in another hour or in another half hour or in another, whatever it is.

Yeah. Just checking in with giving yourself permission to go. Having that mindset of going in with the mindset of, I'm not gonna drink and I'm gonna stay for two hours. And then I'll see how we're going. Or going in with the mindset of I will have two drinks total, two standard beers total. And I will leave and after two hours I'll check in and either stay for another hour or go home or.

Giving yourself that parameter of, or going in with the mindset of these are, this is how the night is gonna pan out for me. Yeah. Instead of going in, being like, okay, we're going to a party, let's see, but let's not, let's see. [00:54:00]

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. And you brought up the, okay, this is, if I'm, if you're doing damn January, if you're cutting back mind, mindfully moderating, whatever level you're at or whatever, you're whatever you say you're doing, whether you're, if I'm just doing dry July just for this month, whether I'm alcohol free, whether I'm cutting back to a certain level, whether I want to moderate with moderation, it's one of the biggest things I think is delay the start time, just because. Especially in, if it's a summer event and it's all, it's a, maybe it starts at noon or maybe you're out on a boat or, maybe you're stuck, then you can decide should I go to this type of thing.

But that's obviously a, an option too, is to be like, yeah, I can't make it today. Or, you know what, I'm not feeling it. Oh, this came up now, other people and people know our business. Yeah. COVID iss

Emma: a great one as well, isn't it? Oh, sorry, I got COVID. I can't come, [00:55:00] I'll make everyone sick.

Kevin: Ugh. Nowadays that's fine. It hasn't got

Emma: COVID.

Kevin: Yeah. But delay it because, once we, once, once you're on the clock if you, if it's, especially if it's a long time if you can push that back and just get in and get comfortable to the situation. I think that's important because that's a lot of the times, like why we do that in the first place.

So coming in and having those, I would walk in with a coffee, iced coffee or whatever in my hand and be like, no, I'm good. I'm just gonna finish this and I'll grab something. And coming in with a beverage of your choice that you can no, I'm good. I'm, I'll get something later. Or yeah, I'm thirsty.

Do you just have a, do you have a seltzer or whatever? The sparkling water, salt water? Yeah. Yeah. I'll just grab one of those for now and I'll figure out what I want in a minute. I brought these for you, could add to the bring off alcohol free options that you like. [00:56:00] But yeah, like pushing that back, still having the exit strategy.

And capping it too. Yeah. That time limit I think is good. And like you said, you can stay longer if you're feeling good and you're having a good time and no worries. Great.

Emma: Check in with yourself, get curious. I'm big on getting curious, yeah. If you are in a situation where you do feel triggered or it's too much for you or something, get curious about okay, that was a trigger.

Do I now want to avoid that situation next time? Or do I want to what could I do differently to help navigate that trigger or navigate that situation? Is this a situation that I can handle better or differently? Or is it a situation that I want to avoid in the future? So get curious about oh, that was uncomfortable.

Okay, why was that uncomfortable? What did I do? What did I not do? What could I do differently? That kind of stuff.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: And

I think I'm getting curious about why we do what we do.

Kevin: Yeah. And 'cause I [00:57:00] think getting I said that too, like getting, get curious. 'Cause we know it all. Like we think we know and we don't get curious.

So we were like, oh, I just, because everybody's drinking, blah, blah, blah. But if we look at it and dive into it a little, and it's not like you have to sit there and analyze every little minute detail, but dive into it a little bit more and just question it like, what was it about that maybe, oh, it's because they were drinking my favorite whatever.

Maybe that's what came up that crack

Emma: type in a bottle of

Kevin: Yeah. And maybe it was that, maybe it was just the topic of conversation. They were talking about going on a trip. To bourbon the bourbon Trail. An example of my brothers, and I've shared that before where they've, they went and I was just like, nah, I'm good.

I don't need to go. I could hang out and it would've been fine, but, maybe that was the topic of conversation. I was feeling bad about it because I wasn't sure if I would go and, so it wasn't just because of a certain situation. Maybe it was, what [00:58:00] was talked about, what people were drinking, who was there, or, any number of things.

But don't brush it off as just oh, it was just this. Unless you've thought through it and say, yeah, it was just because everybody's drinking. Okay, that's it, then. Great. And that's fine. But having that knowledge is important because, if we're not aware of what it is, then how can we make any changes short term or long term?

Emma: I think another great tool that just popped into my head, I dunno what you said that made me think of this, but having that plan and, I'm only gonna stay two hours or, my time limit is one hour, two hours, three hours, whatever it is. But telling someone, so either someone that's at the event or someone that's not at the event, if you can have a wing woman or a wingman at the event amazing strategy, 10 outta 10 recommend.

But telling, ideally telling another person and it's gonna be holding yourself accountable because you have declared to someone, I'm only going to have two drinks and [00:59:00] I'm only gonna stay two hours, or I'm not gonna drink and I'm gonna stay two hours. And they go, okay. Cool. I heard you, I got you.

Yeah, that's your plan. So saying that out loud to someone is gonna hold yourself accountable, whether that's someone within the sobriety community or the, the reframe community that you're in or whatever other, support community you're in, whether it's your spouse, a friend.

If you don't feel comfortable doing that, maybe you pop a note in your phone or in a journal or just making that, I guess declaration that this is the plan and it's about acknowledging that this is the plan, this is what I've decided. Yeah. Decision is made. We don't have to renegotiate that decision.

Kevin: Yep, yep. We can renegotiate that tomorrow. That's how I looked at it too. Yeah. Like when people say never question the decision, I'm like, I question the decision all the time but I'll question it tomorrow. That was how I looked at it. Again, it's just like a little mind thing, but,

Emma: I decided today I am not gonna drink. No, I decided

Kevin: today. I'm not gonna do it tomorrow. [01:00:00] Let's open it up for discussion and vote and all of that. But and I, I was honest about that, where I was like, you can change this tomorrow, like if you want to, but you have to make it to tomorrow.

And then I talked about it the next day and I never, the next morning I was always like, Nope, I'm good. I just needed to get through that. And the more you do that, the more you see okay, I can just push through and tell yourself like I just gotta get through tonight. If you're having that struggle.

But what did you say there? That

wingman Write it down. Journal. Yeah. Wing man. Write it down. Journal that's on your

Emma: phone.

Kevin: Oh yeah. Declaring it. Yeah. I've heard people come on to like a reframe community meeting and for, having that accountability to somebody else having that to yourself. Good. Write that down, this is what I'm doing.

But also doing, putting it out there to someone else is, [01:01:00] it adds that level of accountability that, can be helpful. So I've had, there's plenty of people who come on like a community meeting and be like, I have a wedding this weekend. I'm just coming on to, here's my plan. They share it for accountability.

I will come back on Monday and let you know how it went, share how it went, type thing.

Emma: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: I love those. Cheers.

Kevin: Yeah. And just I'm gonna put, I'm gonna blast this out to everybody here and yeah. If you don't see me, feel free to call me out on it. That's not the easiest thing to do.

But it can be, it doesn't have to be that either. It can just be with a friend or yeah. Having that the wing woman I would tell my wife to, Hey, anytime you get up to get yourself a drink, make sure I have a Coke zero or whatever in my hand. Please and thank you. Get me stocked. If I'm stuck talking with somebody, if I'm in the pool or whatever, just bring it over.

It's, whatever it is. If you're getting one, get me one type of thing. Yeah.

Emma: Yeah. Outta 10. Recommend [01:02:00] a wing woman or a wingman. Yeah. For an event. And also like an SOS if someone's not at the event get them to give you a call at nine o'clock. How you doing? Do you need an excuse to leave?

Yep.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Or it might be no, I'm good. Can you call in another hour maybe? I dunno.

Kevin: Yeah. Or send the bat signal to them. Yeah. Be like, if you need it, like just text real quick. Work it out in advance text real quick. Yeah. And then all of a sudden your phone, if I send the clown emoji,

Emma: that means I need help.

Yeah.

Kevin: Then if I send this, just call my phone and then I'll be like, oh, I'll be right back. Shit, I gotta go.

Emma: Yeah.

Kevin: And then walk away and be like, okay, thanks, bye. And then sit there and pretend you're talking on the phone or talk to 'em. But

Emma: yeah, all good tools. All good tactics.

Kevin: Yep.

Emma: All good.

Kevin: We co if you read through all the tangents, I think we covered, we went, we did Loop.

Did it?

Emma: We got there. Yeah. So it is time [01:03:00] for, what did you learn this week? What's something that Kevin learned this week that is not necessarily anything to do with why we are here?

Kevin: Yeah. I'm trying to think of this and I don't know if, and I can never think, it's stuff that's not typically like this week either.

Is usually what comes to my mind. But I'll say I was, I. This week's years old. Old years old. I almost said this week's years old. I was this old I finally came to the conclusion that just all my tattoos are gonna hurt from now on. Got, and I get them on not good places.

Like I just got one on my hand. Yeah, that's, and I've got them on my chest and I've got on, the, there's just the

Emma: bits where people are like, that's gonna hurt. You're like, yeah, check a tattoo on it. Let's do it.

Kevin: Yeah, let's [01:04:00] go. But I had hopes for this. And usually I'm like, oh, I don't, obvi obviously I don't care if it hurts.

That's the point of it. Not the point of it, but you're gonna have that. It's

Emma: gonna hurt a little. Yeah. There's gonna be some discomfort.

Kevin: Actually early on I early on, meaning when I was first alcohol free for early on, there unwelcomed the feeling. Like it was almost like it, it was cathartic.

More so now maybe I don't need that catharsis and it just hurts. But yeah, the, this week's year, I stop saying this week's years old I was this.

When, yeah. It's just, tattoo right now, know whenever I was first getting 'em, it's oh, tough. You got gr it and you can't show that now. I'm just like, ar damn. Yeah. Yeah, this is painful. But yeah. Close to the kn that's, yeah, that's the,

Emma: yeah, just the whole top of the, of top of the hand, top of the foot, thin skin.

Close to all the [01:05:00] tendons and bones and nerve endings and, yeah. Yeah.

Kevin: I took, that's gonna, I took ang with me 'cause I wanted her to, because this tattoo is for my mom and I wanted her to approve it. Usually whenever I go I sent pictures and I'm like, come on, get back to me. I'm like, you're going this time and you need to come.

And so I'm like, I'm just slowly trying to desensitize you to tattoo so that, we get you in. See, it's not that bad. I, Ashley's nice. You like Ashley,

Emma: interesting. Yeah. My last tattoo we, you were with me when I got my last tattoo. And my husband came along. He was, it was the whole party.

Yeah. And I was like, are you gonna stay? And he is no. I'm gonna go, I'll go get something to eat with these guys. And he took off and I don't know, I haven't actually asked him whether it was because he didn't wanna watch because he is squeamish or he didn't wanna see me in pain. Or he's, I know he doesn't like tattoos.

He's not a tattoo guy. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't,

Kevin: he didn't wanna [01:06:00] look at you disappointingly 'cause you're getting tattoo and he doesn't like him.

Emma: This tattoo I got, it's his constellation. So like I got it for him. That it's, for me, it's about our relationship and our connection. But yeah.

It's like giving someone a gift of. Knowing, knowing that they don't drink alcohol and still giving them a bowl of champagne. Be like, this is for you.

Kevin: Yeah, it's not for

Emma: me. This,

Kevin: no, it's, this was totally for me because I wanted a tattoo and this was the tattoo that I could justify this idea.

Emma: Yeah. But yeah, I don't know if it's and no, he doesn't see me in pain. Never like seeing someone in pain. This one wasn't actually that sore. There were a couple of bits where I was like,

Kevin: I don't think Ange cared. She saw me gr but you were in pain. She saw me grit like, you're an idiot.

Teeth. And yeah. Yeah. That's funny because, this was, I was like, I wanted, I've always wanted a tattoo on my hand, but I'm like, that's a big step. And so I was like, oh. I'm like, I'll eventually get that. I don't know what I want. But then I had this idea because of for my mom.

And so I told [01:07:00] Ange about hand tattoo and she, I told her that in the. And she's yeah, you know how I feel about those. And I'm like, okay, hear me out. It's gonna be to my mom. And she's you backed me corner. I know corner here. I can't really say no to this. Can I, without being coming across bad.

I'm like, yeah, that's the point. Gotcha. You can't check mate. Yeah, check mate. Yep. So I don't know if that was a, that wasn't really a nugget, but I, it was a realization

Emma: that tattoos now hurt.

Kevin: Yeah. Whereas before, it was fine and it was, more I think the experience and it didn't matter.

It was supposed to hurt. Now I have no problem. And I was always like, oh, you gotta be tough and you're, it's fine and all this. And now I'm just like, ow. And I'm fine with that.

Emma: I don't think I've ever had a tattoo that, ah yeah, that didn hurt. Most my tattoos [01:08:00] have hurt. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

That's like my brother said the one time he is he I went on a string of really bad areas of where I got it and like the inside of my arm is one of the,

Emma: yeah, no, thank you.

Kevin: That's so sensitive in there. And like my chest and my back and I thought my back would've been fine for one, but it was like right by my armpit over here and she went to she touched me to hold me steady and then go to tattoo it. But when she did that, my body was like, tickle. Yes. And it made, it was sensitive and it made me tickle and then it was pain. And that was one of the worst sessions I ever had because my body didn't know what to do. Like it was tickle, tickle pain was like, alright, up your mind.

But it was over and over again for two hours and I was how would you say it? And dawned or shattered maybe. Or shattered. Yeah. Yeah. [01:09:00] I was shattered after that one. Yeah. Shattered.

Emma: Yeah, I don't like getting tickled either. It makes me so angry. So that would be anger, frustration, and pain all in one. Yeah.

Kevin: And I paid for it. Literally. I paid for it. Do this to me. I wanted it. Yeah. It's

Emma: no pain, no gain.

Kevin: Exactly.

Emma: I don't have a nugget. I was gonna say, I haven't learned anything this week.

I'm sure I have. I've had a really productive week. It's just me and the big kid at home this week. School holidays should do school ball or a school prom. So that was a big event. She had a cheerleading competition, another big event. It's been a big week, but I can't think of what. I'm tired. I'm tired.

That's what I learned. I'm tired.

Kevin: Yeah. How was this? Week's, years, months, days old when

Emma: tired. I discovered [01:10:00] I'm tired. No, I'm always tired.

Kevin: I discovered this week too. Here's a nugget that is probably more appropriate for this week, is I discovered that if you go to bed early, it's easier to wake up early.

Emma: Yeah. How did you get to this age in your life when this is what you learned?

Kevin: Yeah, because I made my, so I was in bed last night at nine o'clock. I didn't go to bed at nine o'clock like I read.

Emma: But you were in bed reading? Yeah. Relaxing reading.

Kevin: And then I put my headphones on. I did the whole medi 20 minute meditation.

Beautiful. And I woke up at four 50, like half hour before my alarm was gonna go off with the little five pound dog staring at me. Shaking 'cause I acknowledged her and she was ready to wake up. Yay. And I was like, huh, I'm wide awake right now. I wonder what time it is. 'cause I put, I've been putting my phone across the room too.

Oh, so I don't hit the snooze and so I'm like, damnit, alright, I'll get up, go to the bathroom, check the time, and if it's close enough I'll get up. [01:11:00] It was close enough but I was like, why awake? I'm like, all right, imagine that.

Emma: Who would've thought if you go to bed early and you get enough rest, you're raring to go in the morning?

Kevin: Yeah. So

Emma: Sarah?

Kevin: Yep.

Emma: Yeah. Okay. Maybe my, I learned this week I should not start a new series. Mm-hmm. After dinner. Because then I wanna finish the new series before I fall asleep, which means I'm not reading and relaxing and unwinding and I'm staying awake too late and then I'm not wanting to get up early and go to the gym.

Yep. Alright. That could be my nugget too.

Kevin: Yeah, it's a good

Emma: reminder. Thanks friend.

Kevin: Sure.

We'll see if I. Do that tonight as I'm editing this.

Emma: So you on my meeting at 3:30 AM

Kevin: No, I've,

Emma: hopefully not.

Kevin: One time. One time I was editing the podcast that it was close enough to 3:30 AM where I just [01:12:00] like, all right, I'll stay up another half hour and go mess with them on a meeting. A troll me in my meeting.

Yeah.

Emma: I turn my camera on

Kevin: eventually. This is what reframe,

Emma: this is what Reframe don't see is that behind the scenes, Kevin and I will jump on each other's meetings and troll each other. It's a great time.

Kevin: I'm iPhone.

Emma: Yeah, iPhone. And make each other try and make each other crack.

Kevin: Yeah. You're reading the intro and I'm just sitting there like throwing stuff out.

Yeah. Yep.

All right. Should we close it out? All right. You've got the

Emma: exit.

Kevin: Thank you all for listening to another episode of the re frameable podcast, brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. I wanna thank you all again for listening, and be [01:13:00] sure to come back again for another episode. Have a great day. Bye friends.