Marissa Charest - Accountability & Friendships

Steph: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast, a podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more, because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one app on iOS and Android to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Steph Prangley. I'm a nutritional therapy practitioner and I have a virtual private practice called The Sober Rebellion. And I'm also a Thrive Coach here at ReFrame.

My co host is Kevin Bellack. Kevin is a certified professional [00:01:00] recovery coach and the head of coaching at Reframe. I gave Kevin a much deserved day off and I interviewed fellow ReFramer and the very lovely Marissa. Charist, who is just returning from celebrating her third anniversary in Maui.

Not only was it her third wedding anniversary, it was also her first alcohol free vacation. Marissa will be 34 at the end of October, and she... Lives in Canyon Lake, California with her husband, Brett, and their two dogs, Dee Dee and King. Marissa joined Reframe back in December of 2022. She says that her life has completely changed since then.

Marissa started on the cutback track, but wanted to switch to the alcohol free track. She made it 19 days.

sHe struggled all through January and February, and then finally made the decision within herself to be done with [00:02:00] alcohol for good. February 27th was Marissa's last day one, and 20 something days later, she traveled to Kentucky to spend a weekend with her new Reframe besties, while having one of the best experiences experiences imaginable that trip solidified Marissa's decision to be done with alcohol for good, but she still takes it one day at a time.

In this episode, we talk about Marissa's background with that her experience with cutback going alcohol free, drinking on vacation some difficult conversations she had with her husband about it. We also talked about the importance of accountability and community. While navigating an alcohol free lifestyle she provided some really, really helpful tips for you to your listener to form your own supportive group of like minded folks, whether you're alcohol free or cutback, Marissa gives us some tips on forming a support circle that will help keep you accountable to your goals.

We also talked about [00:03:00] traveling alcohol free and phantom thoughts, her fancy term for when her brain thinks, hey, I could sneak in that drink, even though she knows deep down that she doesn't want to. And lastly, we covered a surprising moment when her husband, who doesn't struggle with alcohol, kind of got a taste of what a trigger was like.

So stay tuned for that. Marissa's advice to anyone confused or curious or considering going alcohol free.

It's not a cakewalk or a diamond encrusted life over here. It's worth every single motherfucking second of it, I promise. You can connect with Marissa on Instagram or the Reframe app, both at ml. I'm gonna spell this out 'cause I don't know how to pronounce it. At ml, C-H-A-R-E-S-T-T-T. Thank you so much for being here and let's get to the show [00:04:00]with Marissa.

Marissa. Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. I was really excited that you that you volunteered. When I threw out that invitation on a meeting one time so thanks for, for getting that booked and everything.

Why don't we just get started with a little bit of your backstory, like what brought you here? Why are you here? What made you join ReFrame?

Marissa: Well, much like every other ReFramer, I have had an issue with drinking for quite some time. And I, I've tried a few different things. I tried Smart Recovery. I, Had gotten a DUI back in 2015, and because of that, they made you go to AA,

and I didn't really feel [00:05:00] like AA was my environment because first of all, I showed up with a waiver that had to get signed for the court. So automatically you're kind of looked at as you're required to be there. You're not there on your own free will. So there was like already this weird vibe about it and smart recovery.

I liked, but I just didn't stick to it. I wasn't really serious enough. And last, last fall, my husband and I went to Maui for our second anniversary. And while we were there, we just had some really serious conversations about what I was doing and how it was affecting my life and our relationship. And.

You know, we kind of made a decision together that I was going to start moderating, cutting back, whatever the case, and I, I really couldn't stick to it. I didn't have any plan. It was just kind of a free for all. And the holidays came around and I. Didn't have any skills or [00:06:00] tools or coping mechanisms for moderation.

I was just trying to do it myself.

So I had had a blow up with a neighbor and that kind of put me into the fuck it mentality being with the holidays, you know, it was Christmas day and my dad in town. And that night after my husband went to bed, I stayed up and drank an entire 200 rare bottle of Mezcal while my dad was drinking his whiskey.

I just killed the entire bottle, put the empty bottle back, went to bed, woke up the next morning, really feeling super hungover and shitty. But I wasn't throwing up, I didn't throw up the night before, and it scared the shit out of me. I was like, how did I drink that much? And... Not like my body didn't reject it.

That's how addicted I am. It was the first time I was really willing to say my body has a chemical dependence and addiction to this substance and I can't control it anymore. [00:07:00] I continued to drink that day and I eventually told my husband that the empty bottle was back in its location and he was really, he was really upset with me, but he was also thankful that I had come clean about it and it kind of.

Spiraled me into searching for, I think I got targeted on Instagram after I'd done some searching through Google and I don't remember downloading Reframe. I joined on the cutback track and I, I drank that night. The next morning I woke up and this was the 27th and I was like, all right, I'm gonna, you know, do my daily tasks and I'm going to listen to a meeting.

And I joined the daily check in meeting, the cutback daily check in and the shares made me feel a little bit like I, it was okay to keep drinking. And I knew that that wasn't going to be. What I needed to hear. I needed to hear people that were like, this is the best choice I've ever made. So I switched to the alcohol free track [00:08:00] and I went 19 days without drinking.

And then we went on vacation and bucket mentality came back after one glass of wine at the Admirals club. And then I kind of bounced around until the end of February, where I finally woke up one Monday morning on February 27th, and I was like, this is. And I, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I don't want to do this anymore. I happen to have signed up with reframe coaching that day. And my coach really helped get me into a mindset of I'm not a failure and I can try again and it's okay. I'm I'm back, you know, back, get back up and keep going. And I think that more than anything, the reason why reframe.

Has been such a big impact in my life, has been the connection piece. The meetings being on camera and everybody's so accountable and so vulnerable and open and it's really easy to start relating to all these other [00:09:00] people that are sharing. And the connections have come really easily for me, and I'm so thankful for the people that I've met because it's really been one of the only reasons that I've been able to make it through those really tough moments.

Steph: Yeah. Wow. That's that story is I don't know. I feel like so many people will relate to that where you start with cut back and then it just isn't for you or even just trying other modalities to like, I'm kind of curious to hear about your smart recovery experience too, because I know that.

You've made some really deep connections, really deep, like real deep friendships within the reframe community. And that's amazing. I'm just kind of curious how, like how reframe is different than smart recovery for you. And if I don't know, is there like the anonymity piece and smart recovery? Does it just not get to that like vulnerable level?

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Marissa: I think that Reframe does such a great [00:10:00] job of giving you the ability to be completely anonymous if you want to be, but also to be yourself if that's who you want to be as well. And I, I personally choose to put my first and last name, my Instagram handle up, like I am 100 percent transparent, but there's other people who use fake names and they don't come on camera and that's completely up to them.

But I like the fact that I can see other people's faces and it's almost like being in the room with them. It's, it's the next best thing, but being able to see people's reactions and just feeling like you're really there with them has, has made it. More comfortable to find a face that's like inviting and be like, Hey, you know, I, I related to your share and, and you just kind of end up connecting.

I have not felt that piece with, with smart recovery. I didn't feel that. And like I said, with AA, I kind of had a target on my back with my waiver, but with with smart recovery, when I started doing it. There was no video chat option and that may have changed more [00:11:00] recently, but at the time it was very much username based and one of the things was like we had to check in, even if you were just saying I'm just here to listen, like there was a lot more pressure in that aspect where I don't feel any pressure from reframe.

I mean, it was like a month of joining meetings before I turned my camera on, before I shared, and then once I did, it was, it totally was like taking the top off of a, you know, amazing can of worms. And all of a sudden I made all these awesome friendships and next thing you know, I'm flying out to Kentucky to go meet with my new Reframe besties.

And it's really, it's been crazy.

Steph: Yeah, that's awesome. I don't talk about this a lot, but I got a DUI when I was Like 22, so back in 2004 or so and I had to do AA then I kind of forgot about it until you brought it up, but I had that waiver thing and I had to go five times and I was so young, like it was just, it was really weird.

And I mean,[00:12:00] I think it's fine. Like people can use whatever recovery mechanism works for them, but I know exactly what you're saying about having to get the sheet. Signed. It just, I don't know, it feels like people know that that's why you're there and that you aren't there on your own accord and you're not like, you're not there because you want to be there or whatever, but but I have friends that do 12 step programs and stuff like that, and I know it can be effective, but I'm with you on the reframe connection and yeah, I like that you can hide in the meetings too.

Like not everyone, even Kevin talks openly about this too. You know, where he wouldn't want to raise his hand. He wouldn't want to be on video. He like, especially in the beginning that just he wasn't ready for that yet. And a lot of us aren't, there's still so much stigma and shame wrapped up in, in drinking and like the vast world, you know, not necessarily like in reframe.

It isn't at all. Like I hear your mezcal story and I'm like, yeah, that's it happens, you know? [00:13:00] You kind of got to laugh at it. Cause it's otherwise

Marissa: that's so great about reframe is there's no judgment about what your journey looks like. Everybody's journey is different, whether you're cut back, whether you're alcohol free.

There's no you can't do this. You have to do this. It's whatever your journey looks like for you. And I felt like a lot of the other programs, it's more more strict and more don't drink at all, or you've done something bad. And that's just not how, how it feels when you come back after a slip.

And it's been 236 days since that's happened for me. But you know, when I did come back in the beginning and saying, Oh, I, you know, went out of town after 19 days, it was like the amount of support I was getting made me want to

Steph: Yeah, it's and vacation is so hard. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but I wanted to hear how you went about building this community on reframe, because there's a lot of people out there who are like, you see it in the meetings too, where it's I [00:14:00] need accountability, buddy.

Like, how do you join a group? All of that? Like, how did you get to this level where you have your group of besties? that you're flying all over the country to get together. That's amazing.

Marissa: Yeah. So when I first started joining meetings, I was Looking for and, and on the forum, I was looking for people who were like around my day count or who were saying things similar to how I felt.

And Christine, who's, who's my absolute, she's my AF wifey. She had posted on the forum that she didn't have any alcohol free friends and that she needed some. And so I reached right out to her and I was like, Oh my God, I need alcohol free friends too, let's be friends. And we started texting and, next thing, you know, it's all day, every day. And there were a couple of girls that I reached out to on the zoom meetings because their shares really, I connected with them. So I reached out to them in the zoom meeting or on Instagram afterwards, and we just [00:15:00] connected that way. I think that the biggest piece of it has been that I'm kind of willing to just be like, hi, I want to be your friend and not be afraid of.

The rejection that comes with it because there, there have been some people that I've reached out to or made connections with that have kind of fallen off and as hard as that is, I can't expect everyone to be as. And, you know, in your face as, as I am with the support aspect of it, like I, I needed a lot of support.

And so I went out and sought it because I knew that I wasn't going to be able to get it from just one person or from my husband, or I needed, you know, a group. And I just, I wasn't sure how to go about that. So I just started reaching out and I got really lucky that. They all liked each other too. Yeah, there was a point in time where I was like, Hey, should we all go into a group chat?

You know? And yeah, it's just, it's been amazing. Like watching this group of friends really grow over the course of the last six or seven months. And. [00:16:00] It's really amazing to see people who support each other as individuals as well as the group supporting each other as a whole. I've never experienced that kind of friendship before and I think just the vulnerability aspect of Reframe and that we have to put all those guards down and I mean, you don't have to, but the only way that it works is if you do.

You know, so that instant, you know, vulnerability and honesty and trust that came along from the very beginning, just the, that's the reframe way, you know, so it really strengthened those bonds from, from the beginning.

Steph: Yeah. Those are really good tips. I mean, you're just like, Hey, whatever I'm putting myself out there and it's big and it's scary, but.

I mean, you're right. Like, how else are you going to do it? And I mean, the thing about going through something like recovery together is it's a, it's a way to get quickly bonded when you find the right people. I know I had. Like a group of close [00:17:00] girlfriends from Reframe like earlier on and it just, it kind of dissolved after we had six, seven, eight months alcohol free and it like, it makes me so sad because I, I mean, I felt like they were just really important to me.

Like they, like I did open up more than I usually do. Like I'm pretty introverted. I'm really private. Not as much now that I do this podcast because it's just yap, yap, yap. But, you know, you know, it's, it's hard for me to open up to people. It's hard for me to open up to women. And I just I was really appreciative of them.

You know, when we had our little group going, and I think it's awesome that you still have these besties in your life and you're like getting together, you put yourself out there, sometimes it works, sometimes it didn't, and you like didn't have that expectation I need this one accountability partner who, you know, who I can count on for everything, like you realized, hey, a group setting is probably better because not everyone will be for everyone.

And, it's [00:18:00] just inevitable that some people are gonna fall off or whatever. I mean, maybe not inevitable, but that's a part of it too. Right. So yeah, that's awesome. And you think that having this community, having those friendships, those sources of accountability, that's what made the difference for you this time?

Marissa: Yes. Outside of meetings and the forum whenever I'm needing support. Someone's there there, there's seven of us in the group and there have been multiple times where I've reached out or someone has reached out and been like, can anyone chat? And there's almost always someone available to chat.

The loneliness aspect doesn't, doesn't really come up too much because it's that constant, you know, daily, just silliness to memes and gifts and how are you doing? And here's baby photos and things like that. But also, you know, the real struggles and what we're going through in life and being able to support each other through things that have nothing to do with alcohol, even, and still knowing that we are [00:19:00] all still dealing with the alcohol aspect of life.

You know what I mean? Not drinking still has such an effect on everything that we do and getting through something as simple as a vacation. Without alcohol is this huge win and every single day that I was on vacation. I needed to talk to my accountability group, you know It's really really helped me stay Like trust myself, you know,

Steph: yeah.

Yeah. So let's talk about vacation because so So if I understood your, your history, your story correctly, it was like, okay, anniversary in Maui had serious conversation with husband about drinking tried to wing it on your own to cut back for a while got wasted around Christmas, downloaded the app, didn't remember downloading the app, drank a bottle of Mezcal and then went on cut back, decided that wasn't for you, went alcohol free.

Did that for a while, then drank on vacation, [00:20:00] and then now you just had your first sober vacation. Yes. Right? Okay. Girl. Well,

Marissa: so, when I was, like, 20 something days alcohol free, Back in the beginning of March, I went to Kentucky to visit my other ReFramed friends and that was the first time I traveled alcohol free, which I was still kind of like in a daze, like I, I was so focused on getting through that trip without drinking.

Cause at that point, I wasn't even sure I was going to make it to 30 days. I thought I was going to drink at the end of that trip when I got home. So yeah, I just, I was like power through getting there and just, you know, my husband made me drive to the airport so that I would have to drive home so I couldn't drink on the plane on the way home.

And I was like flying back on a Saturday and I was like, well, I can make it through Sunday and I'll make it, I'll make it to 30 days. Like I made this deal with myself while I was on the trip and I don't know, [00:21:00] getting there. I just was like power through power through. But. That weekend was a really big shift for me.

One of, one of the reframers in the Hollywood squares, as we call them, had, had passed away that weekend. And so everybody in the community was pretty much on Zoom meetings, you know, all day, every day that weekend. And the amount of support and the reality check that it gave us all to be like, this could be me next.

It was just this moment that really solidified. I don't want to go back to that life. I'm starting to make these connections. I'm starting to enjoy things again without drinking. And I've proved to myself, I can make it 20 something days. I can make it almost like, why not just keep going and see how far I can make it.

And so I, I told myself I was going to make it to 60 days and then by the time I got to 60 days, 90 days wasn't even an option. I was just like, let's keep going, you know, [00:22:00] and yeah this last vacation. I, I had always said when I, when I first quit, I was like, I don't know how I'm going to get through my anniversary without a glass of champagne.

So this vacation was really cool that it was the first one that I was going for this full week long vacation in an environment where alcohol is very acceptable, not held up in a hotel room with other reframers and just the mindset that I was in that I knew I wasn't going to drink. And we, we brought it a checked bag that was like overweight because all that it was.

With alcohol free booze so that I knew I was going to have it when I was there. It was all these bottles of wine and cans and everything. But yeah, I just, I had a plan and I went into it knowing I was going to take a walk every morning. I was going to join every meeting that I could before nine, 10 o'clock in the morning.

I knew I was gonna make sure I was going to eat as best I could sleep every single night. And I knew I wasn't going to drink. I had my plan for my alcohol free drinks. bring them with me. [00:23:00] And I don't know, there were a few moments that I, I got these these thoughts of Oh man, I wish I was drinking, but I didn't actually wish I was drinking.

It's you see people having fun at the pool and they're all like loud and excited next to the bar. And so that association alone makes you think that because they're drinking, they're having fun, but they're, they're having fun because they're having, it may not have nothing to do with the alcohol.

So it was just really cool to look around and notice things I hadn't noticed before. And honestly, the drunk people that I realized I was them before I just felt sad, like it didn't bother me, but I was like, Oh my gosh, we're at the spa and you're stumbling around. Like I used to be that girl, you know?

So it was, it was really just an eye opener for a lot. I mean, like I said, I was missing out on so much of the beauty and the realization of you're on vacation in this place that may be like a once in a lifetime vacation, but it's Or a once in a lifetime sight, but, you know, my thoughts before were like, [00:24:00] when's my next drink, when's my next drink, instead of being like, look how beautiful that is.

And I think that my only regret of this last vacation was that I was trying to do so much and fit it all in and make sure I was taking all the pictures and doing all the walks, but I didn't get as much in the moment mindfulness time. And I'm really looking forward to going back again and trying to implement a little bit more like mindfulness and meditation type stuff.

Cause I really just wanted to fit everything in and it was amazing, but I came home absolutely exhausted. I learned what jet lag is, the whole time change thing. I didn't know that was really a thing before. I used to say all those things, but I knew it was just the

Steph: alcohol, right? Oh, I love that. So Hawaii was my first alcohol free vacation too.

Yeah, I went last January. So I was like, So a little over six months alcohol free. So we did like sometime in Kona, sometime on [00:25:00] Maui. And I'm like, so obsessed with alcohol free travel. I was overprepared. I didn't, I didn't bring it in a suitcase like you did, which by the way is a really like hot tip because.

There's so much comfort in knowing that you have the drinks that you want on hand and you don't have to worry about it. But I found it we went to the Kona Brewing Company and they had athletic brewing brew there. And then everywhere else it was, like, really easy to get mocktails. We even went somewhere in Maui that had seed lip actual mocktails with the seed lip.

Oh my gosh, that's so cool! Yeah, it was awesome. So I found it like kind of easy to drink in Hawaii, but still it was, I get what you mean it still can be so tempting. I... Ordered a glass of wine when I was there. I didn't drink it, but it was like, we got up early, hiked this volcano. It was like kind of like the volcanoes like out in the middle of nowhere, of course.

So we didn't really eat well that day. And then we fought and we got rushed back, got ready for [00:26:00] dinner, went to dinner and yeah, like exhausted. It's the old like halt strategy. Right. Like hungry and tired are my big things. And I was both, and I was like. I'm going to get a glass of wine. We're like sitting on like outside at this gorgeous restaurant and this gorgeous beach, like waves and all that stuff.

And I ordered it and then I'm like, you know what, I'm going to wait. Until we have our appetizer, and then I'll make the decision. And as soon as I ate something it was fine. I gave the wine to my husband. But it was scary. It was, like, the closest I've come to slipping in a pretty long time. And it's just important to, in my opinion to be over prepared, too.

I was a little bit too confident going into it. I anticipated the travel days being hard. But like having a full, amazing, gorgeous day, like hiking a volcano, like I would have never thought that I would be tempted after that. So anyway, I don't know how I turned this into my story.

Marissa: No, it's, it's, [00:27:00] it's funny though, too, that you're saying the whole hungry, angry, lonely, tired, it is.

When I, when I've been recovering from this time zone and jet lag thing, and I think part of it was like I said, I, I was doing so much on the trip that I just came home and I was like, Oh my God, I'm exhausted. And the first like few hours on Sunday, I was like, Oh my God, I feel so anxious. What's going on.

And I realized that like part of it was. Tired. Part of it was hungry. Part of it was, like, the sad, angry thing of vacation's over. I wasn't prepared for that transition, either! And like going back to real life and everything. So like that loneliness part picks up too, cause you're like, Oh man, my husband's going back to work and he's at a work conference this week.

So yeah, it was just, it was really interesting being able to recognize all that stuff. And like I said before, having the skills and the tools and the understanding of what's happening to your body and why you're feeling the way you feel, it's actually made such a difference [00:28:00] in, in the way that I even look at ordering that glass of wine after a long day.

Because now I know why I even think to order that in the first place. It's because I'm hungry, angry, lonely, tired, or one of the other things.

Steph: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, those tools are just so essential and I, I still can't believe it. I still can't believe I actually ordered the glass of wine. But yeah, I think The stuff that I've learned on ReFrame and just like studying the science of alcohol, the science of what happens with our neural pathways and stuff like that.

It's, that is like I guarantee what got me to not drink the glass of wine and just like it's like a Dangerous little game to be like well, I'll wait till the appetizer and then I'll make the decision. I don't like to do that, but sometimes just delaying it and knowing that maybe it is tied to one of those you know, hunger cues or whatever is like enough to get you through.

And I'm so glad I didn't drink, because I think that would have... You know, just it's never just one, not with me, you know, it would [00:29:00] have, it would have given me permission to continue drinking. And I don't really want to do that. I don't think I'm the kind of person who can slip and not have it be like more like a more major relapse.

That's really scary for me to think about. I'm

Marissa: the same way. I feel like, I feel if I had one. If I had that one glass of champagne on my anniversary, it would have gone one of two ways. I either would have been like, well, I've had one, I've screwed up all this time, so why not just continue? And I would have destroyed the trip.

Or I would have made myself feel so guilty about that one glass of champagne. I would have ruined the trip anyway. So there was no point to drinking that glass or even considering it because it was just going to ruin the rest of the trip. I knew that going into it, so,

Steph: yeah. That's amazing self awareness, too.

Even just talking it through and processing it with you, it's that is so much noise over a glass of something to drink. That alone is that's why we quit, right? That's why we don't do [00:30:00] it anymore. Because it's there's so much like mind chatter about just a stupid drink.

It's okay, that, that is inherently problematic. You know? Yes.

Marissa: It's way too much time. There's way too much of a time consuming aspect to. How alcohol affected

Steph: my life. Yeah. Takes up so much space and you don't realize that until you give it up. And you're like, this is the life I was missing out on.

Holy shit.

Marissa: So putting, putting the work in takes just as much time and yet has. A complete opposite effect, you know, taking that time, instead of putting it into thinking about drinking, putting it into working on myself has just night and day difference. I mean, panic attacks are almost gone and I'm sleeping again.

Like it's, it's crazy.

Steph: Yeah. It's, it's energizing instead of just weighing you down, you know, so I want to talk a little bit about your husband. Like [00:31:00] you guys. Had this talk on that vacation at their first vacation or second anniversary in Maui So is he like did he quit drinking with you or is it not a problem in his life?

Like how do you guys navigate that? Yeah,

Marissa: so my husband is one of those that I guess we call them like normal drinkers, but it's really more He's the type that like when he's done with his drink He can set it down and walk and doesn't think about it again. It's over there's no There's no thought processes that go into drinking or continuing drinking.

He is able to enjoy a glass of whiskey with his cigar on a Saturday night and wake up on Sunday and not think about it and go play baseball and go play soccer at night and then go back to work on Monday. And it's that's it, you know, he'll have. a beer while cleaning the garage on a Saturday during the day or Friday night, whatever totaling three drinks in an entire week, all during the weekend during completely appropriate [00:32:00] times.

And it's of course, I'm more than fine with him doing that because it's clearly not an issue for him. And if that's what makes him happy, I support it. But what we talked about a lot on this vacation was how much I've noticed that he's cut back because I'm not shoving it in his face all the time.

I'm not making him drink with me, so I'm not drinking alone. So inherently, he's cut back to those like I said, three drinks pretty much max in a week, which is before I feel like that was like our morning. That was our bottle of champagne on a Sunday morning, you

Steph: know? Yeah, mimosa time. Oh my god. I yeah, I always joke with my husband I feel like 90 percent of our bad fights have been when I've been drinking mimosas Like champagne and I just don't all that sugar.

Oh my god I was such an evil bitch when I would get like bottomless mimosas, but Well, that's really cool that that your husband's cut back to you. So [00:33:00] So yeah like I know you wanted to talk a little bit about like triggers How your husband deals with that too. So

Marissa: while we were on our trip, there was a point in time where I had had one of my athletic brewings and I hadn't brushed my teeth and he smelled my breath and immediately it like put him in a spiral of, Oh my God, she's going to drink today.

This whole, like everything's about to get ruined. Like he was triggered and. When I noticed in his body language, cause we were on speakerphone talking to somebody and I noticed in his body language, she was like upset with me and I was like, what's going on? I didn't, I didn't even know what was going on.

And after we hung up the phone, he's yeah, like I just, I smelled the beer and it like totally made me feel weird. And I didn't know what was going on. He's I started getting all these thoughts like, oh my God, is she going to just be drinking all day? And I was like, oh my gosh, babe, that's what I go through.

All the time, like those triggers, that spiral, that's what happens to me. And [00:34:00] when I'm like, I don't know why I'm freaking out, but I'm having this moment where I kind of feel like drinking, but I don't really want to drink. That's what's happening to me. And now you understand. And it was this really cool moment that I never thought that I would be able to get where I'm like, I don't want you to know how I feel, but I like that you know how I feel.

Steph: Oh yeah, totally. I, that's an amazing, I don't know, kind of full circle moment for you guys, because I can't explain it to my husband either, because he's seen me moderate and he's you can just drink like that all the time and it would be fine. And I'm like, you don't know, like the, what goes on in my head.

I feel robbed that I didn't get to drink as much as I wanted to, or we would come home and I would want to continue drinking or all of just like the whole. Like mental gymnastics about like, where's the server? My wine's almost empty. The last call, like panic, the panic of last call where you're like, Oh my God, I need to like, if I slam this drink to go get another one, [00:35:00] like where's everyone else with their drinks?

And, you know, it's so again, all of that, it's so much work. And it's it's so incredibly stressful, but it's. Trying to explain that to someone because it's even hard for me to put words to like the mental anguish that would go on, you know, with me, like what you described, like your husband might kind of get it now, you know, like what a trigger really is.

He definitely gets it more,

Marissa: understands a lot more than he did before.

Steph: That's, that's

Marissa: I always say too, I'm like, he can't, he can't possibly understand what I go through because otherwise he'd have a problem with drinking too. So it's a good thing that he doesn't fully understand. It's also hard to relate to somebody who's struggling with something when you're not, you've never struggled with it.

So you, he, he's able to drink alcohol like appropriately, in a healthy manner. I am not. So he doesn't really understand why, you

Steph: know? Yeah. Well, [00:36:00] and that's, it goes back to why like your community is so important too. Like we all get it. I get it. I get what you. Go through, you know, maybe not exactly, but we're all on this like A. U. D. Spectrum somewhere. Alcohol use disorder spectrum and. You know, in my own life, I've seen it progress from being like totally okay to wherever I stopped, you know? And it's like we're all on that spectrum somewhere and having people that get you is I don't know. It just makes all the difference in the world, right?

Yes, it really does Okay. Well, I just I have a one last question. I want to talk about your phantom thoughts Okay

Marissa: so I call them phantom thoughts because the first time it happened to me, my husband had a glass of red wine on a Saturday night and I'd gone to bed and the bottle was on the counter and the cork was off and I walked out to fill [00:37:00] my water and I saw that bottle and I was like, the cork's off.

Like I could totally swig that and no one would ever know. And I was like, wait, well I don't, I don't want to swig that. Like what, what was that thought that just came through my head? It, and I call them phantom thoughts because they're not real. It's like, It's like my neural pathways are still trying to realign themselves and figure out how to function without alcohol and these thoughts pop into my mind that are not Like real thoughts and feelings.

They're just kind of like passing and they're usually that of, I could do this and no one would know, or like it, it would be really easy to do that right now because I would be able to hide it. It's always this sneaky stuff. Right. And I always go back to but I would know. And those thoughts as quickly as they come, they're gone because that's the first thing that, you know, that comes back to my mind is I'm like, but I would know.

Steph: [00:38:00] Yeah, that's, I mean, that's almost what happened to me in Hawaii. It was like a reflex almost to order that glass of wine. And I know I didn't want the wine, but it's I, it's like a force bigger than me almost, and by some, it's like those tools and the practice that we have. And, and. really putting effort into learning about this stuff.

You know, I think about our daily tasks. I think about meetings, like you can do it with various levels of integrity, you know, I mean, you can kind of breeze through it and Just, you just want like a passing grade and you can put the amount of energy into it that would get you, you know, an A plus or whatever.

And it's like that, that does make a difference. And I mean, recovery fatigue is a real thing, but you know, when I think of you having these like phantom thoughts, the neuropath way thing me with that Hawaii incident or whatever, and even the past month or so, like I had [00:39:00] my knee injury, I've been laid up.

I. Had bronchitis. I'm obviously still recovering. It's been a dark couple months for me, and the thought just starts kind of creeping into my head, and it's like, It's because it's always there, like that neuropathway, it always knows that, that alcohol is an option, even if it's a maladaptive, bad option, it's always there, and what we do in recovery is, I don't know, if People are listening to this and I'm like going to do things with my hands, but I'm just like, okay, there's like this one path, like a path in the woods.

I do, I talk about this all the time, like path in the woods, you know, if there's just like one hiking trail to alcohol, like that's one narrow pathway. And then what we do in recovery is. We start building all of these different paths. So we have reframe tasks in neuroscience. We have our community and our meetings.

We have[00:40:00] any kind of stress reduction or yoga, meditation, like, all of these other little trails that we start building up. You know, the, the one that's pointed at alcohol is our only coping mechanism. It starts getting covered up with brush. It's, you know, logs fall over it. It's not as easy to access, but it's always there.

And so, you know, I think with these phantom thoughts, . You're like at this point where there's you have all of the options, you can see all of these different pathways, and you have to consciously be like, what is it that my body really needs right now?

Because I know it's not the alcohol, even though it's like, Tempting me for whatever reason. It's that addictive voice. It's the neuropath way, whatever you want to call it It it's patient and it will wait for you. And so Gosh, you know What's that I said, it's so

Marissa: patient

Steph: it's so patient [00:41:00] I know It waits until you're like Confident.

It's so bad, but I mean, that's why it's important that we do all of this maintenance stuff. You know, I think of now that I'm in this position as a coach on reframe, it's so deeply meaningful for me to give back to the community in this way. And, you know, it helps keep me sober. It helps you know, I consider it like part of my service, my giving back and, um, and then like you spending your time with us here, like that's a way for you to give back you to go on these meetings and support people in the chat or.

Speak with your voice or whatever, like you're impacting people. And that helps keep us, following through on the commitments that we make to ourself. You know, it's part of the accountability too. So even if we like, don't get as much out of the meetings as we used to being there and showing up for other [00:42:00] people, that's.

Maybe that's the next step for us. Or maybe we do still get a lot out of meetings. I don't know, but it's you know, I feel like recovery evolves and our relationship with these spaces evolves right along with us. And I don't know, it's just important to, to acknowledge that and not say Oh, I don't need to learn how to get through my first vacation or my first weekend or my first anniversary or wedding or whatever.

I don't need this anymore. It's maybe you don't need that part of it, but. You still need it the support's important. Yes, and I'm about

Marissa: to go to my first sober or alcohol free wedding this weekend. So, first vacation last weekend, first sober wedding next weekend.

Steph: It's a lot. Oh my god, you're checking all the boxes.

So what's your plan for the wedding?

Marissa: Well, we're actually driving to it so we don't have to fly. So we're able to bring our dogs and we're staying at an Airbnb. So we're gonna go for the ceremony and leave. [00:43:00]

Steph: Oh, okay. You're not going to do the reception?

Marissa: I don't think so. I don't think so. .

Steph: All right. So first alcohol free wedding coming up and yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I don't want to take up too much more of your time. Is there anything else that you want to share with us before we say goodbye? Just

Marissa: that. ReFramed's changed my life. And if anybody is still on the fence, just dive in.

Dive in 100%. Soak it all in. Carry it with you as often as you can just tune into meetings and read the forum until you find somebody you can act with And I promise I promise it will all get better

Steph: Yeah, it really does. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's always a pleasure to chat with you Yeah, thanks for coming and I will see you soon.

Take care. Have a great day. Bye. Bye.

That's it for the reframeable podcast this week. Thank you [00:44:00] all for listening to this week's episode of the reframeable podcast brought to you by the reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. And as always, if you have a topic you'd like us to cover in the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app. com. Or if you're on the reframe app, give it a shake and let us know. And I want to thank you again for listening and be sure to come back next week for another episode. Take care, everyone. Talk to you soon.